WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.243 align:middle line:90% 00:00:04.243 --> 00:00:05.660 align:middle line:84% MICHAEL MCCLELLAN: OK, we're going 00:00:05.660 --> 00:00:07.490 align:middle line:90% to go ahead and get started. 00:00:07.490 --> 00:00:10.190 align:middle line:84% So first of all, I just want to welcome everybody 00:00:10.190 --> 00:00:11.370 align:middle line:90% for coming today. 00:00:11.370 --> 00:00:13.560 align:middle line:84% It's nice to see students here, obviously, 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:15.570 align:middle line:90% faculty, administrators. 00:00:15.570 --> 00:00:18.520 align:middle line:90% Thank you for coming today. 00:00:18.520 --> 00:00:20.380 align:middle line:84% My name is Michael McClellan, and I'm 00:00:20.380 --> 00:00:22.120 align:middle line:84% the interim associate superintendent 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:24.710 align:middle line:84% of instruction and institutional effectiveness. 00:00:24.710 --> 00:00:26.980 align:middle line:84% And I have the honor of introducing 00:00:26.980 --> 00:00:31.940 align:middle line:84% two very, very well qualified guests who are talented, 00:00:31.940 --> 00:00:34.970 align:middle line:84% who are going to have a Juneteenth conversation today. 00:00:34.970 --> 00:00:37.180 align:middle line:84% And so the first thing I'm going to do 00:00:37.180 --> 00:00:40.550 align:middle line:84% is I am going to talk a little bit about their bio, 00:00:40.550 --> 00:00:41.630 align:middle line:90% introduce them to you. 00:00:41.630 --> 00:00:45.230 align:middle line:84% So the first person is Dr. Omar Dphrepaulezz. 00:00:45.230 --> 00:00:48.470 align:middle line:84% He is a history professor at 性视界. 00:00:48.470 --> 00:00:52.780 align:middle line:84% He is a historian of African American history, US history, 00:00:52.780 --> 00:00:54.650 align:middle line:90% and US foreign policy. 00:00:54.650 --> 00:00:58.360 align:middle line:84% He completed his PhD in history at the University 00:00:58.360 --> 00:01:01.420 align:middle line:90% of Connecticut in 2013. 00:01:01.420 --> 00:01:04.930 align:middle line:84% His areas of interest include the history of Islam 00:01:04.930 --> 00:01:09.440 align:middle line:84% and the African American community, race and immigration, 00:01:09.440 --> 00:01:13.610 align:middle line:84% race and crime, and the interface amongst race, gender, 00:01:13.610 --> 00:01:15.070 align:middle line:90% and US empire. 00:01:15.070 --> 00:01:19.070 align:middle line:84% Dr. Dphrepaulezz has research and teaching experience 00:01:19.070 --> 00:01:22.530 align:middle line:84% in the history of American foreign relations, 00:01:22.530 --> 00:01:26.960 align:middle line:84% African American history, US history, and world history 00:01:26.960 --> 00:01:30.540 align:middle line:90% from 1500 to the present. 00:01:30.540 --> 00:01:31.420 align:middle line:90% Round of applause. 00:01:31.420 --> 00:01:33.740 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:01:33.740 --> 00:01:36.530 align:middle line:90% 00:01:36.530 --> 00:01:41.270 align:middle line:84% And Sam Dunson has been selected to complete an art commission 00:01:41.270 --> 00:01:46.350 align:middle line:84% at 性视界 in honor of the legacy of Juneteenth, 00:01:46.350 --> 00:01:48.900 align:middle line:84% one of many objectives to address Dr. 00:01:48.900 --> 00:01:51.120 align:middle line:90% Shannon's 10-point plan. 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:56.430 align:middle line:84% Dunson holds an MFA in painting from Savannah College of Art 00:01:56.430 --> 00:01:57.430 align:middle line:90% and Design. 00:01:57.430 --> 00:02:00.400 align:middle line:84% Currently, he has thriving studio practice-- 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:03.750 align:middle line:84% a thriving studio practice, and regularly shows his artwork 00:02:03.750 --> 00:02:07.030 align:middle line:84% in museums and galleries around the US. 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:09.750 align:middle line:84% In addition, he is a full-time professor 00:02:09.750 --> 00:02:12.970 align:middle line:84% of studio arts at Tennessee State University. 00:02:12.970 --> 00:02:16.769 align:middle line:84% He lives with his family in Kennesaw, Georgia. 00:02:16.769 --> 00:02:19.264 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:02:19.264 --> 00:02:21.760 align:middle line:90% 00:02:21.760 --> 00:02:23.830 align:middle line:84% So, gentlemen, I will give you the floor 00:02:23.830 --> 00:02:25.850 align:middle line:90% for a Juneteenth conversation. 00:02:25.850 --> 00:02:27.315 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Thank you. 00:02:27.315 --> 00:02:28.190 align:middle line:90% All right, thank you. 00:02:28.190 --> 00:02:30.250 align:middle line:84% First, I want to thank everyone for coming. 00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:32.728 align:middle line:84% And just a little announcement to my students-- 00:02:32.728 --> 00:02:34.270 align:middle line:84% if you're here for extra credit, make 00:02:34.270 --> 00:02:37.210 align:middle line:84% sure you sign in so I know you're here. 00:02:37.210 --> 00:02:40.450 align:middle line:90% And welcome to Professor Dunson. 00:02:40.450 --> 00:02:42.650 align:middle line:90% We had a previous conversation. 00:02:42.650 --> 00:02:46.430 align:middle line:84% I was very excited, as I think everyone is, about your project. 00:02:46.430 --> 00:02:51.880 align:middle line:84% So let me just ask you to tell me about your work in general 00:02:51.880 --> 00:02:54.340 align:middle line:84% and, specifically, how your kind of life 00:02:54.340 --> 00:02:57.550 align:middle line:84% experiences and your identity has affected or shaped 00:02:57.550 --> 00:02:58.715 align:middle line:90% your work. 00:02:58.715 --> 00:03:00.340 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Well, first and foremost, I 00:03:00.340 --> 00:03:02.230 align:middle line:90% want to say thank you. 00:03:02.230 --> 00:03:03.280 align:middle line:90% Thank you all. 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:06.100 align:middle line:84% It's been an absolutely pleasure to-- 00:03:06.100 --> 00:03:13.450 align:middle line:84% absolute pleasure to be here and be part of it, to be asked to 00:03:13.450 --> 00:03:16.600 align:middle line:90% or chosen to do this. 00:03:16.600 --> 00:03:24.170 align:middle line:84% But I would say, to answer the question, it's almost the idea 00:03:24.170 --> 00:03:27.870 align:middle line:84% that very early on, I was allowed to be an artist. 00:03:27.870 --> 00:03:32.030 align:middle line:84% And I've been kind of talking about this all today, 00:03:32.030 --> 00:03:34.350 align:middle line:90% and it's kind of winding-- 00:03:34.350 --> 00:03:39.070 align:middle line:84% I mean, feelings, I guess you would say, not ideas, 00:03:39.070 --> 00:03:41.620 align:middle line:84% but feelings, I mean, going deeper than language, 00:03:41.620 --> 00:03:46.230 align:middle line:84% I guess you would say, of why I am or have the ability 00:03:46.230 --> 00:03:50.520 align:middle line:84% to create, because it could have easily been taken away 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:55.930 align:middle line:84% from me if I had not been set up in the right space to create. 00:03:55.930 --> 00:04:01.770 align:middle line:84% So I give honor to my parents because they 00:04:01.770 --> 00:04:07.110 align:middle line:84% are the reason that I'm able to see something, think 00:04:07.110 --> 00:04:12.980 align:middle line:84% something, and then create, due to the fact that they saw that 00:04:12.980 --> 00:04:16.010 align:middle line:84% as being important in their lives. 00:04:16.010 --> 00:04:16.890 align:middle line:90% When I was younger-- 00:04:16.890 --> 00:04:19.370 align:middle line:84% I was actually just talking to Rebecca earlier-- 00:04:19.370 --> 00:04:22.530 align:middle line:84% when I was younger, I mean, it wouldn't be anything. 00:04:22.530 --> 00:04:26.060 align:middle line:84% I mean, imagine, for somebody that has never 00:04:26.060 --> 00:04:29.600 align:middle line:84% thought about traveling or never thought about creating 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:33.830 align:middle line:84% or never thought about art, the idea of going 00:04:33.830 --> 00:04:36.360 align:middle line:84% from Dayton, Ohio, with four kids in the back-- 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:40.720 align:middle line:84% my parents-- blue-collar workers, driving to New York 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.950 align:middle line:84% to see Dreamgirls just for the weekend. 00:04:43.950 --> 00:04:44.952 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Wow. 00:04:44.952 --> 00:04:47.285 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: I wouldn't have even thought that that was-- 00:04:47.285 --> 00:04:49.100 align:middle line:84% I mean, for me, that was not strange, 00:04:49.100 --> 00:04:52.250 align:middle line:84% because that was just what we did. 00:04:52.250 --> 00:04:55.440 align:middle line:84% But then when I see that is strange, 00:04:55.440 --> 00:04:57.140 align:middle line:84% I have to give honor to my parents 00:04:57.140 --> 00:04:59.120 align:middle line:84% for being the type of parents that would 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:01.790 align:middle line:90% nurture that idea in their son. 00:05:01.790 --> 00:05:05.030 align:middle line:84% So that is one of the main reasons 00:05:05.030 --> 00:05:09.020 align:middle line:84% that I create is because somebody gave me 00:05:09.020 --> 00:05:12.080 align:middle line:84% the power and the nurturing to do it. 00:05:12.080 --> 00:05:16.850 align:middle line:84% And now, if I don't do it, I'm dishonoring everything 00:05:16.850 --> 00:05:18.770 align:middle line:90% that they allow to happen. 00:05:18.770 --> 00:05:20.787 align:middle line:90% So that's the most important-- 00:05:20.787 --> 00:05:22.620 align:middle line:84% I would say that's the most important thing. 00:05:22.620 --> 00:05:24.140 align:middle line:90% And then everything else is-- 00:05:24.140 --> 00:05:29.150 align:middle line:84% that also led me to marry a woman that continued 00:05:29.150 --> 00:05:32.730 align:middle line:90% that allowance as well. 00:05:32.730 --> 00:05:35.690 align:middle line:84% So, I mean, if I were to share some of the texts 00:05:35.690 --> 00:05:40.140 align:middle line:84% that I've gotten from my wife just to say, you're doing good. 00:05:40.140 --> 00:05:42.000 align:middle line:90% We appreciate what you're doing. 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:47.670 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's-- it's kind of continually re-- 00:05:47.670 --> 00:05:51.600 align:middle line:84% not restructuring, but pouring more concrete and strength 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:55.210 align:middle line:84% on the foundation that my parents set for me. 00:05:55.210 --> 00:05:58.380 align:middle line:84% So just that whole idea is the reason 00:05:58.380 --> 00:06:00.870 align:middle line:84% that I-- that is the reason that I create. 00:06:00.870 --> 00:06:05.160 align:middle line:84% And having the ability and the OK 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:09.150 align:middle line:84% to do the things that I'm doing is really because of them 00:06:09.150 --> 00:06:10.710 align:middle line:90% and also for them. 00:06:10.710 --> 00:06:14.410 align:middle line:84% So everything else is just about life, I guess. 00:06:14.410 --> 00:06:16.770 align:middle line:84% I mean, I know I answered the question 00:06:16.770 --> 00:06:19.530 align:middle line:90% with one little life word. 00:06:19.530 --> 00:06:23.415 align:middle line:84% But all of that idea of what life is 00:06:23.415 --> 00:06:25.920 align:middle line:84% is because I've been allowed to live it 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:28.750 align:middle line:84% and allowed to actually tell it through my work. 00:06:28.750 --> 00:06:30.825 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:06:30.825 --> 00:06:31.480 align:middle line:90% That's great. 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:34.480 align:middle line:84% You use this term "allowed" because so much, so often-- 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:35.132 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:06:35.132 --> 00:06:37.590 align:middle line:84% I think a lot of people have experienced this, and probably 00:06:37.590 --> 00:06:42.190 align:middle line:84% very young, that they express some type of artistic ability, 00:06:42.190 --> 00:06:45.280 align:middle line:84% and the parents freak out because they're like, oh, 00:06:45.280 --> 00:06:47.440 align:middle line:84% my god, they're going to be poor their entire life. 00:06:47.440 --> 00:06:48.550 align:middle line:90% They're going to be broke. 00:06:48.550 --> 00:06:49.700 align:middle line:90% They've got to be a doctor. 00:06:49.700 --> 00:06:52.970 align:middle line:84% And so what do you say to students? 00:06:52.970 --> 00:06:54.950 align:middle line:90% Because here we are, this-- 00:06:54.950 --> 00:06:56.600 align:middle line:90% we have an art program here. 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:57.650 align:middle line:90% We have art professors. 00:06:57.650 --> 00:06:59.690 align:middle line:84% We encourage our students to be creative. 00:06:59.690 --> 00:07:02.960 align:middle line:84% What do you say to students who have to vie with that? 00:07:02.960 --> 00:07:05.650 align:middle line:84% How do you-- I mean, you were very blessed that your parents 00:07:05.650 --> 00:07:06.710 align:middle line:90% were like, go for it. 00:07:06.710 --> 00:07:07.848 align:middle line:90% Be an artist. 00:07:07.848 --> 00:07:08.390 align:middle line:90% You're right. 00:07:08.390 --> 00:07:11.403 align:middle line:84% That's unusual in blue-collar, working-class families. 00:07:11.403 --> 00:07:12.070 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yes. 00:07:12.070 --> 00:07:12.800 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:15.200 align:middle line:84% So what do you say to students who have the opposite-- 00:07:15.200 --> 00:07:16.867 align:middle line:84% what advice would you give them, if any? 00:07:16.867 --> 00:07:19.033 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Well, I guess that flip side of the coin 00:07:19.033 --> 00:07:20.785 align:middle line:84% is that my parents did that same thing. 00:07:20.785 --> 00:07:21.620 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Oh, did they? 00:07:21.620 --> 00:07:22.162 align:middle line:90% Oh, did they? 00:07:22.162 --> 00:07:22.930 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:07:22.930 --> 00:07:26.020 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So I went in as an architectural engineering major 00:07:26.020 --> 00:07:27.920 align:middle line:90% because I didn't-- 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:31.220 align:middle line:84% and it's not really because my parents kind of tampered down 00:07:31.220 --> 00:07:34.020 align:middle line:90% any idea that I'd be an artist. 00:07:34.020 --> 00:07:38.810 align:middle line:84% It was a joint effort to say, well, you're a creative person. 00:07:38.810 --> 00:07:41.200 align:middle line:84% They recognized that because I was always drawing. 00:07:41.200 --> 00:07:45.460 align:middle line:90% I was always making things-- 00:07:45.460 --> 00:07:48.990 align:middle line:84% literally has nothing to do with what is being kind of answered 00:07:48.990 --> 00:07:52.115 align:middle line:84% right now, but when I really got into, like, 00:07:52.115 --> 00:07:55.763 align:middle line:84% OK, I'm going to draw, I went into the bathroom-- 00:07:55.763 --> 00:07:57.180 align:middle line:84% I mean, we only had two bathrooms, 00:07:57.180 --> 00:07:59.590 align:middle line:84% and the other bathroom was my parents' bathroom. 00:07:59.590 --> 00:08:03.080 align:middle line:84% So the bathroom was kind of taking over was everybody 00:08:03.080 --> 00:08:03.580 align:middle line:90% else's. 00:08:03.580 --> 00:08:06.480 align:middle line:84% I mean, four of us, me and three sisters, 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:07.660 align:middle line:90% were using that restroom. 00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:09.640 align:middle line:84% I literally closed the door and locked it, 00:08:09.640 --> 00:08:10.810 align:middle line:90% and that was my studio. 00:08:10.810 --> 00:08:13.840 align:middle line:84% So I was in there drawing in the bathroom. 00:08:13.840 --> 00:08:15.812 align:middle line:84% And my parents could have easily been like, 00:08:15.812 --> 00:08:17.020 align:middle line:90% get your behind out of there. 00:08:17.020 --> 00:08:18.603 align:middle line:84% Your sisters need to use the bathroom. 00:08:18.603 --> 00:08:20.880 align:middle line:90% But they let it happen. 00:08:20.880 --> 00:08:26.140 align:middle line:84% So that was kind of something that was really a good thing. 00:08:26.140 --> 00:08:30.870 align:middle line:84% But it did not make it to where that was anything real for them 00:08:30.870 --> 00:08:35.850 align:middle line:84% to see that I would be a studio artist or an artist 00:08:35.850 --> 00:08:37.780 align:middle line:90% as a professional at any point. 00:08:37.780 --> 00:08:40.030 align:middle line:84% So we jointly came together and said, 00:08:40.030 --> 00:08:43.590 align:middle line:84% well, architectural engineering, you do like to create. 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:45.540 align:middle line:90% You like structures. 00:08:45.540 --> 00:08:49.770 align:middle line:84% Well, this is something that you would kind of like to get into. 00:08:49.770 --> 00:08:55.230 align:middle line:90% After one semester, I found art. 00:08:55.230 --> 00:08:59.400 align:middle line:84% I almost pretty much failed out of college, pretty much. 00:08:59.400 --> 00:09:02.880 align:middle line:84% If I'd gone one more semester with the grades 00:09:02.880 --> 00:09:05.220 align:middle line:84% that I had that first semester, I 00:09:05.220 --> 00:09:08.415 align:middle line:90% would have not graduated at all. 00:09:08.415 --> 00:09:11.880 align:middle line:84% And I was also telling Rebecca earlier 00:09:11.880 --> 00:09:14.070 align:middle line:84% that my father is a talker like me. 00:09:14.070 --> 00:09:16.230 align:middle line:84% And this was back in the time when 00:09:16.230 --> 00:09:18.070 align:middle line:90% you would actually get paper-- 00:09:18.070 --> 00:09:21.880 align:middle line:84% I mean, the hard copy grades sent to the home. 00:09:21.880 --> 00:09:26.200 align:middle line:84% So in college, I got my first report card, 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:28.210 align:middle line:84% if you want to call it that-- evaluation. 00:09:28.210 --> 00:09:29.670 align:middle line:90% And I think it was-- 00:09:29.670 --> 00:09:30.940 align:middle line:90% they overwhelmed me. 00:09:30.940 --> 00:09:33.420 align:middle line:84% I mean, part of it is me, but part of it 00:09:33.420 --> 00:09:34.590 align:middle line:90% is I didn't need to be-- 00:09:34.590 --> 00:09:40.980 align:middle line:84% I didn't need to have 24 hours, I mean, the first semester-- 00:09:40.980 --> 00:09:48.930 align:middle line:84% calculus, architecture, engineering, English-- 00:09:48.930 --> 00:09:51.120 align:middle line:90% I mean, it was just too much. 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:52.770 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Sounds traumatic. 00:09:52.770 --> 00:09:54.580 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: It was. 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:58.860 align:middle line:84% So I was pretty much kind of thrown out of the apartment. 00:09:58.860 --> 00:10:03.560 align:middle line:84% But I'll be honest, it led me to what I needed to be in anyway. 00:10:03.560 --> 00:10:04.560 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:10:04.560 --> 00:10:07.570 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So I met one of my mentors, 00:10:07.570 --> 00:10:12.330 align:middle line:84% I mean, literally in what we call a major fair on campus, 00:10:12.330 --> 00:10:14.790 align:middle line:84% where all of the majors come in for anybody 00:10:14.790 --> 00:10:18.180 align:middle line:84% that was either undeclared or undecided 00:10:18.180 --> 00:10:23.050 align:middle line:84% and just introduce the major for that concentration to them. 00:10:23.050 --> 00:10:26.740 align:middle line:84% And I just happened to meet one of my mentors that day. 00:10:26.740 --> 00:10:29.530 align:middle line:84% And, I mean, even though he was biased for the program, 00:10:29.530 --> 00:10:31.990 align:middle line:84% it was what I needed to hear at that point in time. 00:10:31.990 --> 00:10:34.980 align:middle line:84% So he was like, you say you can draw? 00:10:34.980 --> 00:10:36.870 align:middle line:90% Let me see what you're doing. 00:10:36.870 --> 00:10:38.700 align:middle line:84% So I always had something I was drawing. 00:10:38.700 --> 00:10:40.647 align:middle line:84% He said, you need to come on over here. 00:10:40.647 --> 00:10:41.980 align:middle line:90% You don't need to be over there. 00:10:41.980 --> 00:10:43.022 align:middle line:90% You need to be over here. 00:10:43.022 --> 00:10:45.120 align:middle line:84% And his nature and his spirit was something 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:46.470 align:middle line:90% that I needed to hear. 00:10:46.470 --> 00:10:49.180 align:middle line:84% And, I mean, I went from literally almost 00:10:49.180 --> 00:10:54.310 align:middle line:84% being thrown out to being on the dean's list in one semester 00:10:54.310 --> 00:10:56.440 align:middle line:84% because I found where I needed to be. 00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:01.220 align:middle line:84% So it was-- then, to answer the question, 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:04.660 align:middle line:84% that's when my parents were like, well, 00:11:04.660 --> 00:11:07.640 align:middle line:84% it was kind of like the idea of, well-- 00:11:07.640 --> 00:11:10.220 align:middle line:84% playfully, for my father, as long 00:11:10.220 --> 00:11:14.300 align:middle line:84% as you're paying your own bills and loans, as long as you're 00:11:14.300 --> 00:11:16.220 align:middle line:84% not planning on coming back here. 00:11:16.220 --> 00:11:17.678 align:middle line:84% It was kind of like that playfully. 00:11:17.678 --> 00:11:20.012 align:middle line:84% He would have allowed me to come back without a problem, 00:11:20.012 --> 00:11:21.550 align:middle line:90% but he was kind of saying that. 00:11:21.550 --> 00:11:22.550 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:11:22.550 --> 00:11:24.680 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: But that was the allowance. 00:11:24.680 --> 00:11:30.238 align:middle line:84% I was like, yeah, we didn't send you just to be architectural. 00:11:30.238 --> 00:11:32.280 align:middle line:84% It was apparent that you didn't need to be there. 00:11:32.280 --> 00:11:32.690 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:11:32.690 --> 00:11:35.000 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: But you found where you needed to be. 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:36.640 align:middle line:90% And it was like, that was it. 00:11:36.640 --> 00:11:40.260 align:middle line:84% I mean, there was no issue with it. 00:11:40.260 --> 00:11:43.310 align:middle line:84% So we at TSU get a number of students 00:11:43.310 --> 00:11:46.980 align:middle line:90% who are transfers that are-- 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:48.810 align:middle line:84% I mean, nontraditional older students 00:11:48.810 --> 00:11:51.840 align:middle line:84% that are coming back because they've given themselves 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:54.780 align:middle line:84% the allowance to actually do it because their parents didn't 00:11:54.780 --> 00:11:56.730 align:middle line:84% give them the allowance early on. 00:11:56.730 --> 00:11:58.870 align:middle line:84% So, I mean, I'm big on that idea. 00:11:58.870 --> 00:12:02.520 align:middle line:84% So, I mean, what I tell students is-- 00:12:02.520 --> 00:12:06.030 align:middle line:84% and I have-- and I'll speak to a specific student that I have 00:12:06.030 --> 00:12:08.940 align:middle line:84% right now that I'm trying to convince to-- 00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:11.550 align:middle line:84% because she's wanting to go to grad school. 00:12:11.550 --> 00:12:15.430 align:middle line:90% And she's a born painter. 00:12:15.430 --> 00:12:17.920 align:middle line:90% I mean, she is truly a painter. 00:12:17.920 --> 00:12:23.560 align:middle line:84% But her grandparents are helping pay for part of her college, 00:12:23.560 --> 00:12:29.100 align:middle line:84% and they gave her the allowance to be an art student 00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:33.640 align:middle line:84% but are attempting to choose what concentration. 00:12:33.640 --> 00:12:37.690 align:middle line:84% So she's gone from art education to graphic design 00:12:37.690 --> 00:12:39.480 align:middle line:84% and this semester is also attempting 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.550 align:middle line:90% to change to interior design. 00:12:41.550 --> 00:12:43.230 align:middle line:84% And she's jumping because she's wanting 00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:46.710 align:middle line:84% to fulfill the dreams of her grandparents as opposed 00:12:46.710 --> 00:12:48.090 align:middle line:90% to her own dreams-- 00:12:48.090 --> 00:12:51.060 align:middle line:84% so just having those conversations right now 00:12:51.060 --> 00:12:53.430 align:middle line:90% to say that you have to find-- 00:12:53.430 --> 00:12:56.940 align:middle line:84% I mean, you're not going to be able to search something that's 00:12:56.940 --> 00:13:01.260 align:middle line:84% not really yours and completely make it yours if you don't have 00:13:01.260 --> 00:13:04.990 align:middle line:84% the love for that thing, because that interior design has 00:13:04.990 --> 00:13:06.740 align:middle line:84% its own language, its own history. 00:13:06.740 --> 00:13:07.870 align:middle line:90% It has all of that. 00:13:07.870 --> 00:13:11.220 align:middle line:84% If you're not ready to really get that 00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:13.880 align:middle line:84% and you're wanting to have painting, 00:13:13.880 --> 00:13:15.630 align:middle line:84% then you're going to have to find some way 00:13:15.630 --> 00:13:21.070 align:middle line:84% to let them know that this is who I am. 00:13:21.070 --> 00:13:24.420 align:middle line:84% So I just try to tell the students that they need 00:13:24.420 --> 00:13:29.240 align:middle line:90% to find what makes them them. 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:31.410 align:middle line:84% You need to find what makes you you. 00:13:31.410 --> 00:13:35.450 align:middle line:84% And then, I'm not going to say your path is going to be easier, 00:13:35.450 --> 00:13:38.840 align:middle line:84% but your path is going to be a path at that point in time. 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:41.990 align:middle line:84% As opposed to jumping into a river or something like that, 00:13:41.990 --> 00:13:43.370 align:middle line:90% you actually do have a path. 00:13:43.370 --> 00:13:45.787 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: And swimming in mediocrity in something 00:13:45.787 --> 00:13:47.890 align:middle line:90% you hate to do, right? 00:13:47.890 --> 00:13:48.400 align:middle line:90% Yeah, yeah. 00:13:48.400 --> 00:13:49.350 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: And trying not to drown. 00:13:49.350 --> 00:13:50.430 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, exactly. 00:13:50.430 --> 00:13:51.260 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Exactly. 00:13:51.260 --> 00:13:52.920 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: What's interesting about that-- 00:13:52.920 --> 00:13:55.080 align:middle line:84% I mean, I was just in my US history class. 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:57.325 align:middle line:84% We were just talking about the Harlem Renaissance. 00:13:57.325 --> 00:14:01.560 align:middle line:84% And especially in our community, the African American community, 00:14:01.560 --> 00:14:03.770 align:middle line:84% I would argue that art has played 00:14:03.770 --> 00:14:09.770 align:middle line:84% a huge role in the transformation, sometimes, 00:14:09.770 --> 00:14:13.160 align:middle line:84% of political thought, of social and cultural trends 00:14:13.160 --> 00:14:14.390 align:middle line:90% and this sort of thing. 00:14:14.390 --> 00:14:17.940 align:middle line:84% Can you talk a little bit how you view that importance, 00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:19.410 align:middle line:90% how important you think that is? 00:14:19.410 --> 00:14:21.740 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, we have a tendency-- 00:14:21.740 --> 00:14:25.040 align:middle line:84% I will say we in this room, more than likely, 00:14:25.040 --> 00:14:30.340 align:middle line:84% it seems like in academics and art, so on and so forth, 00:14:30.340 --> 00:14:35.150 align:middle line:84% we do tend to listen to other ways that we speak. 00:14:35.150 --> 00:14:39.671 align:middle line:84% So kind of speaking through visual language 00:14:39.671 --> 00:14:41.590 align:middle line:90% has its own tongue. 00:14:41.590 --> 00:14:43.140 align:middle line:90% I guess that's the best way to-- 00:14:43.140 --> 00:14:45.015 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: No, yeah, I get you, yeah. 00:14:45.015 --> 00:14:47.160 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So we can actually go and read 00:14:47.160 --> 00:14:51.260 align:middle line:84% all of the history of Harlem Renaissance. 00:14:51.260 --> 00:14:52.260 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:14:52.260 --> 00:14:57.512 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: But it becomes this kind of other thing 00:14:57.512 --> 00:15:00.810 align:middle line:84% until you actually start-- and I'm not saying it 00:15:00.810 --> 00:15:05.210 align:middle line:84% as a this versus this, but I'm saying this in addition to this. 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:06.210 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:15:06.210 --> 00:15:07.350 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: When you go and you're actually 00:15:07.350 --> 00:15:09.870 align:middle line:84% looking at the works that are created by the Harlem 00:15:09.870 --> 00:15:15.260 align:middle line:84% Renaissance artists, and you're in that space, 00:15:15.260 --> 00:15:20.480 align:middle line:84% it's almost like when you're in connection with a person 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.405 align:middle line:90% that is-- 00:15:23.405 --> 00:15:26.480 align:middle line:84% not saying a soul mate that you literally 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:28.890 align:middle line:84% have to become partners or anything like that, 00:15:28.890 --> 00:15:34.840 align:middle line:84% but somebody that has a similar soul, you don't have to talk. 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:35.910 align:middle line:90% You don't have to speak. 00:15:35.910 --> 00:15:38.740 align:middle line:84% And you're getting something from that actual experience. 00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:42.930 align:middle line:84% So being in the space of the actual works 00:15:42.930 --> 00:15:46.780 align:middle line:84% from the Harlem Renaissance, you are not physically, 00:15:46.780 --> 00:15:50.400 align:middle line:84% but you're mentally transported to that period of time, 00:15:50.400 --> 00:15:54.060 align:middle line:84% knowing that they were dealing with certain politics. 00:15:54.060 --> 00:15:55.180 align:middle line:90% They were dealing with-- 00:15:55.180 --> 00:15:57.580 align:middle line:84% and some of those things were very similar. 00:15:57.580 --> 00:15:59.710 align:middle line:90% It makes that period of time-- 00:15:59.710 --> 00:16:00.930 align:middle line:90% it wipes time away. 00:16:00.930 --> 00:16:04.350 align:middle line:84% And you're literally there with them at that point in time. 00:16:04.350 --> 00:16:07.730 align:middle line:84% That's different than reading about it. 00:16:07.730 --> 00:16:08.730 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:16:08.730 --> 00:16:11.190 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So, I mean, I have the ability 00:16:11.190 --> 00:16:14.010 align:middle line:84% to literally walk to Fisk University, which 00:16:14.010 --> 00:16:17.067 align:middle line:84% is right down the street from Tennessee State University. 00:16:17.067 --> 00:16:18.650 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: I didn't know that. 00:16:18.650 --> 00:16:20.278 align:middle line:90% Oh, wow, OK, WEB Du Bois's-- 00:16:20.278 --> 00:16:21.570 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, that's what-- 00:16:21.570 --> 00:16:22.487 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: OK. 00:16:22.487 --> 00:16:25.310 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: And basically the murals of Aaron Douglas. 00:16:25.310 --> 00:16:26.310 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:16:26.310 --> 00:16:28.852 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: And you're able to literally walk into the space, 00:16:28.852 --> 00:16:33.660 align:middle line:84% and you know it's the evidence of a process. 00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:37.320 align:middle line:84% And you're literally seeing the brushstrokes of this man 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:39.273 align:middle line:84% that you are reading about in the books, 00:16:39.273 --> 00:16:41.190 align:middle line:84% and you're saying that this is a great person. 00:16:41.190 --> 00:16:48.790 align:middle line:84% Imagine going and seeing Dr. King's handwriting versus 00:16:48.790 --> 00:16:50.330 align:middle line:90% a copy of the handwriting. 00:16:50.330 --> 00:16:51.080 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, yeah. 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:52.220 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: There's something different there. 00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:54.610 align:middle line:84% I mean, so when I'm seeing the evidence of the process 00:16:54.610 --> 00:17:00.425 align:middle line:84% that these artists held this tool and made these moves, 00:17:00.425 --> 00:17:02.500 align:middle line:84% it's speaking completely different. 00:17:02.500 --> 00:17:06.480 align:middle line:84% So I would say the art of the Harlem Renaissance, 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.290 align:middle line:84% it transports you back to that point in time. 00:17:09.290 --> 00:17:10.920 align:middle line:84% I mean, by all means, we can look at it 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:12.099 align:middle line:90% in books and all of that. 00:17:12.099 --> 00:17:14.020 align:middle line:84% I mean, we can get that sense of it. 00:17:14.020 --> 00:17:15.569 align:middle line:84% But if you ever get an opportunity 00:17:15.569 --> 00:17:19.420 align:middle line:84% to see any artists that are from the Harlem Renaissance, it does. 00:17:19.420 --> 00:17:20.430 align:middle line:90% It takes you back. 00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:23.560 align:middle line:84% And then, on top of that, that's when the narrative comes in. 00:17:23.560 --> 00:17:26.700 align:middle line:84% And those stories that you start reading-- 00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:30.000 align:middle line:84% I may be talking about art speak, too. 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:30.640 align:middle line:90% So-- 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:33.182 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: I mean, I always play the poem by Langston 00:17:33.182 --> 00:17:34.908 align:middle line:90% Hughes, "Kids that Die." 00:17:34.908 --> 00:17:36.950 align:middle line:84% I don't know if anybody's familiar with the poem. 00:17:36.950 --> 00:17:40.730 align:middle line:84% It's a poem-- basically, it's like it was written last year. 00:17:40.730 --> 00:17:43.530 align:middle line:84% It's about people in authority not 00:17:43.530 --> 00:17:45.035 align:middle line:90% caring about kids being killed. 00:17:45.035 --> 00:17:45.660 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Oh. 00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:46.910 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, yeah. 00:17:46.910 --> 00:17:48.880 align:middle line:84% So it's basically about police brutality, 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:50.880 align:middle line:90% but it's written in, like, 1939. 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:51.510 align:middle line:90% And it's-- 00:17:51.510 --> 00:17:52.510 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: [INAUDIBLE]. 00:17:52.510 --> 00:17:55.230 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, it's very visceral, like you are, 00:17:55.230 --> 00:17:56.820 align:middle line:90% you're back in that time period. 00:17:56.820 --> 00:17:59.450 align:middle line:84% And in this particular case, it's read by Danny Glover, so, 00:17:59.450 --> 00:18:01.266 align:middle line:90% you know. 00:18:01.266 --> 00:18:05.590 align:middle line:84% But, yeah, kind of the transformative power of art, 00:18:05.590 --> 00:18:08.800 align:middle line:84% I feel like, is so much a part of our history. 00:18:08.800 --> 00:18:09.850 align:middle line:90% Yeah, yeah. 00:18:09.850 --> 00:18:14.350 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: And I try to tell students not 00:18:14.350 --> 00:18:19.220 align:middle line:84% to make history exist in the books, 00:18:19.220 --> 00:18:22.990 align:middle line:84% because everything that happened during that time 00:18:22.990 --> 00:18:24.290 align:middle line:90% happened for a reason. 00:18:24.290 --> 00:18:27.520 align:middle line:84% So you can actually see a bloodline that runs 00:18:27.520 --> 00:18:30.520 align:middle line:84% through the arc, through the writing, through the music, 00:18:30.520 --> 00:18:34.370 align:middle line:84% because they're engaging with what's 00:18:34.370 --> 00:18:35.890 align:middle line:90% going on at that point in time. 00:18:35.890 --> 00:18:36.890 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:18:36.890 --> 00:18:38.557 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So you can make a connection 00:18:38.557 --> 00:18:42.290 align:middle line:84% to all of these different things and the biography-- 00:18:42.290 --> 00:18:44.540 align:middle line:84% make a connection between all those things, 00:18:44.540 --> 00:18:46.220 align:middle line:90% because they were-- 00:18:46.220 --> 00:18:52.340 align:middle line:84% this visual artist is kind of walking down the street 00:18:52.340 --> 00:18:57.200 align:middle line:84% and seeing the same things that happen that the authors are 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:01.070 align:middle line:84% and the musicians are-- so just speaking in different languages 00:19:01.070 --> 00:19:02.070 align:middle line:90% about the same thing. 00:19:02.070 --> 00:19:05.810 align:middle line:84% So having all of those together kind of helps 00:19:05.810 --> 00:19:08.610 align:middle line:84% to give a fuller understanding of what they were going through. 00:19:08.610 --> 00:19:11.277 align:middle line:84% But that's also-- I'm trying to tell the students that's why you 00:19:11.277 --> 00:19:14.600 align:middle line:84% got to go out and have life, because when the history is 00:19:14.600 --> 00:19:17.270 align:middle line:84% being written and you're a part of it, 00:19:17.270 --> 00:19:20.660 align:middle line:84% and you don't even connect the idea that you were literally 00:19:20.660 --> 00:19:22.200 align:middle line:90% there at that point in time-- 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:23.960 align:middle line:84% I mean, I've seen some photographs 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:29.850 align:middle line:84% of artists of a specific period of time that are in the present. 00:19:29.850 --> 00:19:32.250 align:middle line:84% And I'm like, 50 years from now, they're 00:19:32.250 --> 00:19:34.120 align:middle line:84% going to be looking at that and saying-- 00:19:34.120 --> 00:19:37.608 align:middle line:84% making them these kind of people on pedestals 00:19:37.608 --> 00:19:39.900 align:middle line:84% without recognizing that they just happened to be there 00:19:39.900 --> 00:19:40.720 align:middle line:90% at that point in time. 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:42.887 align:middle line:84% And they were all existing and doing the same thing. 00:19:42.887 --> 00:19:45.130 align:middle line:90% So live life. 00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:46.630 align:middle line:84% Make sure that there's a connection. 00:19:46.630 --> 00:19:47.640 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Live life, yeah. 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:48.480 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.230 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: So tell me about your-- 00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:53.320 align:middle line:84% tell me about Juneteenth, your experience with Juneteenth. 00:19:53.320 --> 00:19:54.612 align:middle line:90% You're from the Midwest, right? 00:19:54.612 --> 00:19:55.278 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yes. 00:19:55.278 --> 00:19:57.550 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, so, of course, Juneteenth, 00:19:57.550 --> 00:19:59.710 align:middle line:84% I think everyone knows, started in Texas. 00:19:59.710 --> 00:20:01.450 align:middle line:90% And we were talking on Zoom. 00:20:01.450 --> 00:20:03.130 align:middle line:90% We talked a lot before we met. 00:20:03.130 --> 00:20:05.470 align:middle line:84% And I was like, well, dude, I grew up in New England. 00:20:05.470 --> 00:20:06.760 align:middle line:90% I grew up in Massachusetts. 00:20:06.760 --> 00:20:08.790 align:middle line:90% I'd never heard of Juneteenth. 00:20:08.790 --> 00:20:11.018 align:middle line:84% I went to Texas in 1981, and people 00:20:11.018 --> 00:20:12.310 align:middle line:90% were like, oh, it's Juneteenth. 00:20:12.310 --> 00:20:13.102 align:middle line:90% I'm like, what is-- 00:20:13.102 --> 00:20:14.607 align:middle line:90% I never had heard of it before. 00:20:14.607 --> 00:20:16.440 align:middle line:84% And you grew up in the Midwest, and you said 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:17.770 align:middle line:90% you knew about it all along. 00:20:17.770 --> 00:20:17.870 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:20:17.870 --> 00:20:20.700 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: So I'm kind of curious, what was that-- 00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:22.030 align:middle line:90% first tell me your experience. 00:20:22.030 --> 00:20:25.710 align:middle line:84% And then I'm curious as to how it reached the Midwest. 00:20:25.710 --> 00:20:26.515 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:20:26.515 --> 00:20:27.390 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: I won't-- 00:20:27.390 --> 00:20:29.682 align:middle line:84% I'll do a disservice to the second part of the question 00:20:29.682 --> 00:20:30.713 align:middle line:90% because I have no. 00:20:30.713 --> 00:20:31.630 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: OK. 00:20:31.630 --> 00:20:33.100 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: And I need to do the research-- 00:20:33.100 --> 00:20:34.100 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:20:34.100 --> 00:20:37.910 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: --because we're talking on Zoom, and I'm like, 00:20:37.910 --> 00:20:40.090 align:middle line:90% well, yeah, for some reason-- 00:20:40.090 --> 00:20:43.040 align:middle line:84% I grew up in Dayton, Ohio, born and raised in Dayton, Ohio, 00:20:43.040 --> 00:20:48.120 align:middle line:84% and we celebrated Juneteenth since I was very young. 00:20:48.120 --> 00:20:55.640 align:middle line:84% And when it was kind of named a national holiday, 00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:58.670 align:middle line:90% many people had no idea-- 00:20:58.670 --> 00:21:02.310 align:middle line:84% didn't even know how to pronounce it. 00:21:02.310 --> 00:21:03.620 align:middle line:90% So, I mean, I'm-- 00:21:03.620 --> 00:21:07.910 align:middle line:84% so I have no idea why we celebrated it 00:21:07.910 --> 00:21:12.830 align:middle line:84% in Dayton and other regions kind of close, in almost 00:21:12.830 --> 00:21:15.050 align:middle line:90% a circle there in Chicago. 00:21:15.050 --> 00:21:17.930 align:middle line:84% We were about five hours away from Chicago-- 00:21:17.930 --> 00:21:23.300 align:middle line:84% Dayton, Gary, Indiana, it's kind of a little area where 00:21:23.300 --> 00:21:25.110 align:middle line:90% we all kind of celebrated it. 00:21:25.110 --> 00:21:27.270 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: California, too, though, yeah. 00:21:27.270 --> 00:21:28.430 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, I forgot you said that, yeah. 00:21:28.430 --> 00:21:29.810 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, because, well, it started 00:21:29.810 --> 00:21:32.570 align:middle line:84% in Texas, and then it spread to Louisiana, I guess, 00:21:32.570 --> 00:21:33.660 align:middle line:90% and Mississippi. 00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:33.740 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:35.657 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: So these migratory patterns 00:21:35.657 --> 00:21:37.190 align:middle line:90% during the Great Migration-- 00:21:37.190 --> 00:21:39.300 align:middle line:84% and up in New York and Massachusetts, 00:21:39.300 --> 00:21:41.130 align:middle line:90% we're all from Virginia, right? 00:21:41.130 --> 00:21:43.820 align:middle line:84% My people are from Virginia, from the Caribbean, right? 00:21:43.820 --> 00:21:46.110 align:middle line:90% They're from North Carolina. 00:21:46.110 --> 00:21:48.660 align:middle line:84% So I guess it just didn't get there. 00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:50.520 align:middle line:90% But it's interesting. 00:21:50.520 --> 00:21:54.300 align:middle line:84% You're not that-- Dayton, Ohio, it's a full-day drive for me, 00:21:54.300 --> 00:21:55.360 align:middle line:90% but it's still the North. 00:21:55.360 --> 00:21:58.090 align:middle line:90% It's more north than I was. 00:21:58.090 --> 00:22:00.370 align:middle line:84% So I think it's these migratory patterns. 00:22:00.370 --> 00:22:03.580 align:middle line:84% But what were the celebrations like in Dayton? 00:22:03.580 --> 00:22:06.980 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: They were somewhat minor. 00:22:06.980 --> 00:22:08.828 align:middle line:90% In Dayton, everything is-- 00:22:08.828 --> 00:22:10.620 align:middle line:84% I won't say everything, but a lot of things 00:22:10.620 --> 00:22:12.880 align:middle line:90% are kind of concentrated. 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:17.730 align:middle line:84% So it doesn't-- it never exploded out into areas-- 00:22:17.730 --> 00:22:20.410 align:middle line:84% we were about 45 minutes away from Cincinnati. 00:22:20.410 --> 00:22:23.730 align:middle line:84% So you'd get some of it there, but it didn't explode out. 00:22:23.730 --> 00:22:25.440 align:middle line:90% So the celebrations were-- 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:28.450 align:middle line:84% it was more of a celebration of heritage, 00:22:28.450 --> 00:22:31.740 align:middle line:84% and kind of more so African heritage, 00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:38.610 align:middle line:84% as opposed to the context of the connection to freedom 00:22:38.610 --> 00:22:40.420 align:middle line:84% from enslavement or anything like that. 00:22:40.420 --> 00:22:41.530 align:middle line:90% So it was an idea. 00:22:41.530 --> 00:22:44.160 align:middle line:84% So you would get the normal things 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.540 align:middle line:90% that you would get in any-- 00:22:45.540 --> 00:22:48.310 align:middle line:84% I won't say "any," because I don't want to overgeneralize, 00:22:48.310 --> 00:22:54.540 align:middle line:84% but a lot of diasporic celebrations with the street 00:22:54.540 --> 00:22:55.047 align:middle line:90% festival. 00:22:55.047 --> 00:22:57.130 align:middle line:84% I mean, but it was really about street festivals-- 00:22:57.130 --> 00:22:58.130 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:22:58.130 --> 00:23:01.840 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: --about cooking, the idea of smelling, 00:23:01.840 --> 00:23:05.860 align:middle line:84% I mean, incense and shea butter being sold. 00:23:05.860 --> 00:23:07.600 align:middle line:84% I mean, that's pretty much what it was. 00:23:07.600 --> 00:23:09.540 align:middle line:84% And then, in the evenings, it was more kind 00:23:09.540 --> 00:23:11.920 align:middle line:90% of the dance, African dance. 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:14.320 align:middle line:84% And so it was really about heritage. 00:23:14.320 --> 00:23:16.650 align:middle line:84% And I think that was the beautiful aspect of it 00:23:16.650 --> 00:23:18.600 align:middle line:84% is that it was giving the idea that we were 00:23:18.600 --> 00:23:21.100 align:middle line:84% free to, at that point in time in that little area, 00:23:21.100 --> 00:23:28.640 align:middle line:84% we're free to look at or see the idea of diaspora differently-- 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:29.640 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:32.245 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: --because we were being told what-- 00:23:32.245 --> 00:23:34.090 align:middle line:90% we were being told who we were. 00:23:34.090 --> 00:23:35.110 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:23:35.110 --> 00:23:38.620 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: And when somebody tells you enough, 00:23:38.620 --> 00:23:41.080 align:middle line:84% this is who you are, whether it be negative-- 00:23:41.080 --> 00:23:42.610 align:middle line:90% a lot of times it is-- 00:23:42.610 --> 00:23:44.510 align:middle line:90% then you tend to believe that. 00:23:44.510 --> 00:23:48.770 align:middle line:84% But it was almost like a punch back at that idea to say, 00:23:48.770 --> 00:23:51.790 align:middle line:84% well, no, this is what we are before enslavement. 00:23:51.790 --> 00:23:53.083 align:middle line:90% We actually did have history. 00:23:53.083 --> 00:23:55.500 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: So it had kind of a pan-Africanist feel 00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:56.030 align:middle line:90% to it. 00:23:56.030 --> 00:23:56.870 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, it did. 00:23:56.870 --> 00:23:57.370 align:middle line:90% It did. 00:23:57.370 --> 00:23:58.060 align:middle line:90% And it was-- 00:23:58.060 --> 00:24:01.990 align:middle line:84% I mean, and I'll go back to that idea was the allowance 00:24:01.990 --> 00:24:05.320 align:middle line:84% to have an idea of what freedom can be, 00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:07.540 align:middle line:84% looking a little bit past the idea of enslavement 00:24:07.540 --> 00:24:09.810 align:middle line:84% and say that we actually existed before that time. 00:24:09.810 --> 00:24:10.810 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:24:10.810 --> 00:24:11.770 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:24:11.770 --> 00:24:13.570 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, the earlier 00:24:13.570 --> 00:24:19.150 align:middle line:84% kind of expressions of it in Texas in particular, it was-- 00:24:19.150 --> 00:24:21.700 align:middle line:84% well, at first, actually, when African Americans 00:24:21.700 --> 00:24:24.560 align:middle line:84% would try to sell it, would try to-- excuse me, celebrate it-- 00:24:24.560 --> 00:24:28.400 align:middle line:84% they would experience pushback, very violent pushback. 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:31.510 align:middle line:84% In fact, I was reading about how African Americans 00:24:31.510 --> 00:24:33.740 align:middle line:84% would get together and buy pieces of land. 00:24:33.740 --> 00:24:35.520 align:middle line:84% They called them freedom colonies 00:24:35.520 --> 00:24:38.970 align:middle line:84% so they could actually not only celebrate their holidays, 00:24:38.970 --> 00:24:44.310 align:middle line:84% but get away from the madness of white supremacist terrorism. 00:24:44.310 --> 00:24:47.270 align:middle line:84% And often, these celebrations, they kind of doubled 00:24:47.270 --> 00:24:51.390 align:middle line:84% as kind of a time to establish a political platform, 00:24:51.390 --> 00:24:53.098 align:middle line:84% like, where are we going to go from here? 00:24:53.098 --> 00:24:55.015 align:middle line:84% What are we dealing with now, and where are we 00:24:55.015 --> 00:24:56.010 align:middle line:90% going to go from here? 00:24:56.010 --> 00:24:59.330 align:middle line:84% So it's kind of interesting that post-'60s, it's kind 00:24:59.330 --> 00:25:03.060 align:middle line:84% of a celebration of where we did go, right? 00:25:03.060 --> 00:25:03.980 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:25:03.980 --> 00:25:07.940 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Kind of a more pan-Africanist feel to it. 00:25:07.940 --> 00:25:09.810 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Dayton is a bit segregated. 00:25:09.810 --> 00:25:10.200 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:10.760 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: But there is a-- 00:25:10.760 --> 00:25:11.780 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: That's what I figured. 00:25:11.780 --> 00:25:12.350 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: There's a-- 00:25:12.350 --> 00:25:13.850 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Those Northeast-- 00:25:13.850 --> 00:25:15.495 align:middle line:84% those cities up north are very-- yeah. 00:25:15.495 --> 00:25:17.870 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: People try to act like it was all down South, 00:25:17.870 --> 00:25:18.560 align:middle line:90% but it's like-- 00:25:18.560 --> 00:25:21.810 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: No, just the segregated, yeah, yeah. 00:25:21.810 --> 00:25:23.120 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:25:23.120 --> 00:25:26.160 align:middle line:84% But you hit on something earlier that I didn't even think of. 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:29.960 align:middle line:84% It was the migration patterns, where 00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:34.370 align:middle line:84% the idea of finding wealth and finding an opportunity 00:25:34.370 --> 00:25:36.400 align:middle line:90% to take care of one's family-- 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.140 align:middle line:90% I mean, poor people from-- 00:25:39.140 --> 00:25:41.980 align:middle line:84% both my parents are from a small city called Tallapoosa-- 00:25:41.980 --> 00:25:45.020 align:middle line:84% I mean, called-- named Tallapoosa, Georgia, 00:25:45.020 --> 00:25:46.670 align:middle line:90% which is very small. 00:25:46.670 --> 00:25:49.720 align:middle line:84% And there was opportunities, and you hear, even 00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:54.970 align:middle line:84% on my wife's side, the one oldest family member 00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:58.600 align:middle line:84% breaks out to find a job and literally becomes 00:25:58.600 --> 00:26:01.577 align:middle line:84% a pathway for his or her younger siblings. 00:26:01.577 --> 00:26:03.160 align:middle line:84% And that's what happened to my family, 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:04.702 align:middle line:84% happened to my wife's family as well. 00:26:04.702 --> 00:26:07.870 align:middle line:84% So it was an opportunity with the auto industry 00:26:07.870 --> 00:26:11.170 align:middle line:84% there in Dayton because Dayton is kind of connected to Detroit 00:26:11.170 --> 00:26:12.380 align:middle line:90% through the auto industry. 00:26:12.380 --> 00:26:18.103 align:middle line:84% So it was a pathway to financial freedom. 00:26:18.103 --> 00:26:19.520 align:middle line:84% So I didn't even think about that. 00:26:19.520 --> 00:26:24.040 align:middle line:84% So a lot of Black people that came from deep South 00:26:24.040 --> 00:26:27.220 align:middle line:84% that may have wanted reason to celebrate in an area 00:26:27.220 --> 00:26:29.740 align:middle line:84% where they weren't allowed to celebrate as much, that might 00:26:29.740 --> 00:26:30.920 align:middle line:90% be one of the connections. 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:32.160 align:middle line:90% So I'm glad you said that. 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:33.160 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:36.770 align:middle line:84% So when did you start to realize growing up what this was about, 00:26:36.770 --> 00:26:39.058 align:middle line:90% realize the origins of it? 00:26:39.058 --> 00:26:40.600 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: When it became a holiday. 00:26:40.600 --> 00:26:41.680 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: When it became a holiday, OK. 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:42.190 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Because-- 00:26:42.190 --> 00:26:43.315 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Wow, OK. 00:26:43.315 --> 00:26:46.020 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Because it literally-- 00:26:46.020 --> 00:26:48.780 align:middle line:84% because I had connected it to my idea of what 00:26:48.780 --> 00:26:50.240 align:middle line:90% it was when I was younger. 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:54.690 align:middle line:84% So I didn't have reason to find out-- there was no-- 00:26:54.690 --> 00:26:58.330 align:middle line:84% I guess it's like when you're told something young enough, 00:26:58.330 --> 00:27:00.360 align:middle line:84% you accept it as opposed to trying 00:27:00.360 --> 00:27:01.610 align:middle line:90% to research what it really is. 00:27:01.610 --> 00:27:02.610 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:27:02.610 --> 00:27:04.300 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So it was a celebration. 00:27:04.300 --> 00:27:05.530 align:middle line:90% That was it. 00:27:05.530 --> 00:27:07.260 align:middle line:90% I had no idea what-- 00:27:07.260 --> 00:27:09.510 align:middle line:84% I literally thought it was June 10. 00:27:09.510 --> 00:27:13.620 align:middle line:84% And I was wondering why it was not celebrated on June 10. 00:27:13.620 --> 00:27:18.292 align:middle line:84% That was the crux of my kind of questioning. 00:27:18.292 --> 00:27:20.750 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: You lost your Southern culture for sure. 00:27:20.750 --> 00:27:21.250 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:27:21.250 --> 00:27:22.500 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Right. 00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:24.870 align:middle line:90% Make sure-- who's in here? 00:27:24.870 --> 00:27:27.630 align:middle line:84% Make sure I'm not saying the wrong thing. 00:27:27.630 --> 00:27:31.110 align:middle line:84% But I didn't have any idea until they 00:27:31.110 --> 00:27:33.098 align:middle line:84% started talking about the idea of, 00:27:33.098 --> 00:27:35.140 align:middle line:84% OK, well, we need to make this a federal holiday. 00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:36.870 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:27:36.870 --> 00:27:39.340 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: It's bigger than Dayton. 00:27:39.340 --> 00:27:42.260 align:middle line:90% That's how my mind was thinking. 00:27:42.260 --> 00:27:43.260 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:27:43.260 --> 00:27:48.840 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: But that minute I opened the conversation with 00:27:48.840 --> 00:27:52.560 align:middle line:84% myself about what it truly means-- what it truly means, 00:27:52.560 --> 00:27:54.300 align:middle line:90% not meant-- 00:27:54.300 --> 00:28:01.410 align:middle line:84% it pulled what I was celebrating into it. 00:28:01.410 --> 00:28:07.432 align:middle line:84% So it literally changed the entire scope of my-- 00:28:07.432 --> 00:28:09.640 align:middle line:84% it's almost like something happens to you when you're 00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:14.470 align:middle line:84% young, and you accept that thing when you're young, 00:28:14.470 --> 00:28:17.140 align:middle line:84% you accept it when you've grown older, 00:28:17.140 --> 00:28:19.660 align:middle line:84% but then let's imagine you have someone else come back 00:28:19.660 --> 00:28:22.450 align:middle line:84% and say, well, this is what that really was. 00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:25.450 align:middle line:84% I can't think about that the same way that I did. 00:28:25.450 --> 00:28:29.290 align:middle line:84% So it literally reached back into my history 00:28:29.290 --> 00:28:32.230 align:middle line:84% and pulled that celebration like, oh, we 00:28:32.230 --> 00:28:35.200 align:middle line:84% were celebrating freedom, the idea of freedom 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.280 align:middle line:84% at that point in time, and I had no idea. 00:28:37.280 --> 00:28:44.270 align:middle line:84% So the idea of what it means now had an entire influence 00:28:44.270 --> 00:28:45.643 align:middle line:90% as to what it meant back then. 00:28:45.643 --> 00:28:46.560 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: OK. 00:28:46.560 --> 00:28:52.070 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So, yeah, and I'm kind of OK with learning about 00:28:52.070 --> 00:28:53.167 align:middle line:90% it differently-- 00:28:53.167 --> 00:28:54.750 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, no, for sure. 00:28:54.750 --> 00:28:58.670 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: --now because, at first, I 00:28:58.670 --> 00:29:00.830 align:middle line:90% did feel a little bit guilty. 00:29:00.830 --> 00:29:03.650 align:middle line:84% And, I mean, it was strange that I was-- 00:29:03.650 --> 00:29:06.590 align:middle line:84% almost the same way that I did about when I found out 00:29:06.590 --> 00:29:08.810 align:middle line:90% what Easter was really about. 00:29:08.810 --> 00:29:12.830 align:middle line:84% It's like, it's not about eggs and finding candy. 00:29:12.830 --> 00:29:16.235 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:29:16.235 --> 00:29:21.220 align:middle line:84% So when I literally figured that out, it changed the whole idea. 00:29:21.220 --> 00:29:23.750 align:middle line:84% Oh, I need to go find out what eggs mean. 00:29:23.750 --> 00:29:27.270 align:middle line:84% I mean, like, where's the symbolism now and all that? 00:29:27.270 --> 00:29:31.270 align:middle line:84% So I'm kind of glad that I found out about it as an adult-- 00:29:31.270 --> 00:29:32.270 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:29:32.270 --> 00:29:36.290 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: --and what it truly meant, because I'm ready for it 00:29:36.290 --> 00:29:40.280 align:middle line:84% now, whereas before, I might not have been ready for it, just 00:29:40.280 --> 00:29:42.380 align:middle line:90% to say what freedom is. 00:29:42.380 --> 00:29:43.630 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, yeah. 00:29:43.630 --> 00:29:47.720 align:middle line:84% So it kind of created almost a synthesis, maybe, kind of, 00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:49.762 align:middle line:90% across time in a sense. 00:29:49.762 --> 00:29:50.470 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:29:50.470 --> 00:29:50.850 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:29:50.850 --> 00:29:51.590 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:29:51.590 --> 00:29:53.048 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: So how does that 00:29:53.048 --> 00:29:55.010 align:middle line:84% shape your artistic vision in terms of what 00:29:55.010 --> 00:29:56.550 align:middle line:90% you're doing with the mural? 00:29:56.550 --> 00:29:59.810 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: You hit on it right there. 00:29:59.810 --> 00:30:02.020 align:middle line:90% I had to take time out of it. 00:30:02.020 --> 00:30:03.020 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:30:03.020 --> 00:30:05.930 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: If I'm going to say that this thing that 00:30:05.930 --> 00:30:10.460 align:middle line:84% I'm understanding now is influencing that, 00:30:10.460 --> 00:30:14.780 align:middle line:84% but also influencing how I walk from this point forward, 00:30:14.780 --> 00:30:18.480 align:middle line:84% then all three are helping to, what you said, 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:22.170 align:middle line:84% synthesize an idea of what Juneteenth is now, 00:30:22.170 --> 00:30:27.890 align:middle line:84% but also how to now construct an idea mentally and visually 00:30:27.890 --> 00:30:33.780 align:middle line:84% for a work of art that's going to hopefully last "forever," 00:30:33.780 --> 00:30:34.710 align:middle line:90% quotation marks. 00:30:34.710 --> 00:30:36.990 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:30:36.990 --> 00:30:39.540 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So I guess I can kind of explain slightly 00:30:39.540 --> 00:30:40.382 align:middle line:90% what the mural is. 00:30:40.382 --> 00:30:41.590 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Please do. 00:30:41.590 --> 00:30:45.160 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So the idea of the mural-- 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:48.545 align:middle line:84% I'll try my best to kind of move into it. 00:30:48.545 --> 00:30:49.920 align:middle line:84% Take everything that I just said, 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:55.200 align:middle line:84% and bring it into the conversation. 00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:57.437 align:middle line:90% In order for us to understand-- 00:30:57.437 --> 00:30:59.020 align:middle line:84% I was just talking to a class earlier, 00:30:59.020 --> 00:31:02.960 align:middle line:84% but in order for us to understand freedom, 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:05.840 align:middle line:84% we kind of have to, for lack of better words, 00:31:05.840 --> 00:31:09.590 align:middle line:84% be taught what freedom is first in order for us to be free. 00:31:09.590 --> 00:31:12.840 align:middle line:84% So I was-- kind of jokingly, to an English class, 00:31:12.840 --> 00:31:17.510 align:middle line:84% I said, well, we're all free to play the piano. 00:31:17.510 --> 00:31:20.510 align:middle line:84% There's pianos all over the place. 00:31:20.510 --> 00:31:22.490 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: There's one right there. 00:31:22.490 --> 00:31:24.370 align:middle line:90% Go to it. 00:31:24.370 --> 00:31:25.840 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Exactly. 00:31:25.840 --> 00:31:27.340 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: That's all we do. 00:31:27.340 --> 00:31:31.080 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: And we're all free to make sounds. 00:31:31.080 --> 00:31:33.340 align:middle line:84% But that doesn't mean that you're making music. 00:31:33.340 --> 00:31:34.340 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:31:34.340 --> 00:31:38.940 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So what I would say the United States did, 1865, 00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:44.160 align:middle line:84% 1863, all the way to 1865, when it ended, was to say, 00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:48.720 align:middle line:84% you're free, but we're not going to teach you what freedom is. 00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:54.016 align:middle line:84% And the idea of saying that I can play a piano 00:31:54.016 --> 00:31:56.360 align:middle line:90% is going to take work. 00:31:56.360 --> 00:31:58.000 align:middle line:90% It's not just going to happen. 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:03.350 align:middle line:84% You can't give somebody freedom if they're still in bondage. 00:32:03.350 --> 00:32:05.230 align:middle line:90% That's not freedom. 00:32:05.230 --> 00:32:13.590 align:middle line:84% So they pretty much said that the enslaved people were free. 00:32:13.590 --> 00:32:17.250 align:middle line:84% But then you actually talk about the idea of, 00:32:17.250 --> 00:32:19.530 align:middle line:90% how do you mandate that? 00:32:19.530 --> 00:32:25.770 align:middle line:84% How do you go through and say, you all are free, blank, blank, 00:32:25.770 --> 00:32:27.840 align:middle line:84% blank, and not give anything afterwards? 00:32:27.840 --> 00:32:29.230 align:middle line:90% What are we free to do? 00:32:29.230 --> 00:32:30.230 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:32:30.230 --> 00:32:32.270 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: What does that look like? 00:32:32.270 --> 00:32:35.100 align:middle line:90% Am I free to leave? 00:32:35.100 --> 00:32:38.517 align:middle line:84% And then imagine the piano idea that somebody 00:32:38.517 --> 00:32:40.600 align:middle line:84% says you're free to play the piano, but if you do, 00:32:40.600 --> 00:32:43.540 align:middle line:90% I'm going to break your fingers. 00:32:43.540 --> 00:32:47.500 align:middle line:84% And I'm being told that while I'm being told I'm free. 00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:52.700 align:middle line:84% And if you steer away too far from that piano, 00:32:52.700 --> 00:32:54.580 align:middle line:90% we'll cut your feet off. 00:32:54.580 --> 00:32:58.210 align:middle line:84% So seeing pianos all over the place 00:32:58.210 --> 00:33:02.730 align:middle line:84% and having fear to even play them, it's not freedom. 00:33:02.730 --> 00:33:04.890 align:middle line:84% So that's what I was dealing with. 00:33:04.890 --> 00:33:08.990 align:middle line:84% So when I started thinking about how 00:33:08.990 --> 00:33:13.440 align:middle line:84% do I engage that in an image, it's like, 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.800 align:middle line:84% well, we got to take time out of it then. 00:33:15.800 --> 00:33:18.950 align:middle line:84% We got to literally wipe linear time completely out of it 00:33:18.950 --> 00:33:23.090 align:middle line:84% and say that the only way that I'm going to engage in freedom 00:33:23.090 --> 00:33:28.040 align:middle line:84% is to say that my history didn't start in enslavement. 00:33:28.040 --> 00:33:32.810 align:middle line:84% And we are tied to the idea that our history started 00:33:32.810 --> 00:33:37.610 align:middle line:84% being enslaved, because nobody has really allowed us 00:33:37.610 --> 00:33:40.590 align:middle line:84% and told us through history books, 00:33:40.590 --> 00:33:42.710 align:middle line:84% through conversations, through actions, 00:33:42.710 --> 00:33:49.260 align:middle line:84% that we were worth anything other than slaves. 00:33:49.260 --> 00:33:53.670 align:middle line:84% But if we look past slavery and say at the beginning of time 00:33:53.670 --> 00:33:58.620 align:middle line:84% and then look forward and say the far-off period where we no 00:33:58.620 --> 00:34:02.770 align:middle line:90% longer exist, that's our time. 00:34:02.770 --> 00:34:06.190 align:middle line:84% Slavery was a blip on the screen if we look at it 00:34:06.190 --> 00:34:07.330 align:middle line:90% in the context of that. 00:34:07.330 --> 00:34:08.330 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:34:08.330 --> 00:34:11.170 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: We existed far before slavery. 00:34:11.170 --> 00:34:14.230 align:middle line:84% And there was a history that was created 00:34:14.230 --> 00:34:17.770 align:middle line:84% that we can pull from to get strength 00:34:17.770 --> 00:34:18.870 align:middle line:90% because they had freedom. 00:34:18.870 --> 00:34:19.870 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:34:19.870 --> 00:34:21.245 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So maybe I don't need 00:34:21.245 --> 00:34:23.480 align:middle line:84% to look at slavery in this country. 00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:27.909 align:middle line:84% Maybe I can look past slavery and pull that idea in, 00:34:27.909 --> 00:34:30.310 align:middle line:84% have it exist right now, and then-- 00:34:30.310 --> 00:34:33.699 align:middle line:84% I'm one of those people that sort of thinks that we can talk 00:34:33.699 --> 00:34:35.409 align:middle line:90% to the people in the future. 00:34:35.409 --> 00:34:37.610 align:middle line:84% I was also talking to one of the classes earlier. 00:34:37.610 --> 00:34:39.730 align:middle line:84% I'm like, OK, if I have a goal, then 00:34:39.730 --> 00:34:42.130 align:middle line:84% I'm now talking to Sam Dunson in the future. 00:34:42.130 --> 00:34:44.830 align:middle line:84% And Sam Dunson in the future is telling me, well, this 00:34:44.830 --> 00:34:45.679 align:middle line:90% is the blueprint. 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:47.650 align:middle line:84% This is what you have to do to get to me. 00:34:47.650 --> 00:34:50.050 align:middle line:84% So I'm going to put him at a point in the future 00:34:50.050 --> 00:34:55.460 align:middle line:84% as being positive and good, stronger, all of that. 00:34:55.460 --> 00:34:57.770 align:middle line:84% And he's telling me how to get to him. 00:34:57.770 --> 00:34:59.410 align:middle line:90% So I can talk to him right now. 00:34:59.410 --> 00:35:01.010 align:middle line:90% And he can influence me. 00:35:01.010 --> 00:35:01.940 align:middle line:90% I can influence him. 00:35:01.940 --> 00:35:07.200 align:middle line:84% But I can also be influenced by the past, in the present. 00:35:07.200 --> 00:35:09.390 align:middle line:84% So the people in the past are influenced by me, 00:35:09.390 --> 00:35:13.730 align:middle line:84% but I'm also influencing them because I'm the person that they 00:35:13.730 --> 00:35:14.690 align:middle line:90% were looking at. 00:35:14.690 --> 00:35:16.800 align:middle line:90% So all of that actually exists. 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:19.010 align:middle line:90% So how does one create-- 00:35:19.010 --> 00:35:22.520 align:middle line:84% take all that and then create a mural? 00:35:22.520 --> 00:35:29.880 align:middle line:84% We have ideas of strong, positive images. 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:36.660 align:middle line:84% We have an idea of the playful idea of time through clothing, 00:35:36.660 --> 00:35:39.130 align:middle line:90% through color-- 00:35:39.130 --> 00:35:41.850 align:middle line:84% think of photography, black-and-white versus full 00:35:41.850 --> 00:35:43.290 align:middle line:90% color-- 00:35:43.290 --> 00:35:46.800 align:middle line:84% through hairstyles, through all of that, that I can literally 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:53.070 align:middle line:84% say that I'm going to create a field or a plane 00:35:53.070 --> 00:35:58.040 align:middle line:84% where all of these people exist at the same time. 00:35:58.040 --> 00:36:02.240 align:middle line:84% And what they're going to be doing, basically, is working. 00:36:02.240 --> 00:36:05.510 align:middle line:84% So what I'm saying is Juneteenth is not 00:36:05.510 --> 00:36:08.810 align:middle line:90% the idea that we were free. 00:36:08.810 --> 00:36:13.320 align:middle line:84% It was we were free to construct our own future 00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:16.700 align:middle line:84% or free to construct our own idea of who we are. 00:36:16.700 --> 00:36:18.110 align:middle line:90% And that takes work. 00:36:18.110 --> 00:36:21.540 align:middle line:84% So all of these people from different time periods, 00:36:21.540 --> 00:36:25.510 align:middle line:84% different levels of caste, if you 00:36:25.510 --> 00:36:27.550 align:middle line:84% want to call it that, I mean, are 00:36:27.550 --> 00:36:31.150 align:middle line:84% going to be walking towards the future with bits and pieces 00:36:31.150 --> 00:36:33.790 align:middle line:84% that are going to help build an understanding of what freedom 00:36:33.790 --> 00:36:34.340 align:middle line:90% is. 00:36:34.340 --> 00:36:37.532 align:middle line:84% And then, far off in the distance, there is a structure-- 00:36:37.532 --> 00:36:39.490 align:middle line:84% and I'm just calling it a structure right now-- 00:36:39.490 --> 00:36:42.730 align:middle line:90% that I'm calling a new home. 00:36:42.730 --> 00:36:52.040 align:middle line:84% And that home has connections to mud homes, through future homes, 00:36:52.040 --> 00:36:54.390 align:middle line:84% and literally constructing that idea, 00:36:54.390 --> 00:36:58.820 align:middle line:84% and it's in the process of being constructed by the people who 00:36:58.820 --> 00:37:00.360 align:middle line:90% are moving towards that point. 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:05.130 align:middle line:84% So everyone is taking part in what freedom is for them. 00:37:05.130 --> 00:37:07.370 align:middle line:84% And I was just talking about-- one of the other parts 00:37:07.370 --> 00:37:09.401 align:middle line:90% in the mural is at the very-- 00:37:09.401 --> 00:37:14.180 align:middle line:84% from very left, there's a figure that reaches back and engages 00:37:14.180 --> 00:37:18.740 align:middle line:84% with the people who are literally walking by and holding 00:37:18.740 --> 00:37:21.110 align:middle line:84% his hand out to ask them to come in 00:37:21.110 --> 00:37:25.070 align:middle line:84% and to help actually build a future of what freedom actually 00:37:25.070 --> 00:37:25.670 align:middle line:90% is. 00:37:25.670 --> 00:37:27.680 align:middle line:84% I know it's a long, drawn-out-- hopefully, 00:37:27.680 --> 00:37:29.840 align:middle line:84% I'm able to say it in such a way that-- 00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:31.215 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: No, I'm really 00:37:31.215 --> 00:37:32.540 align:middle line:90% looking forward to seeing you. 00:37:32.540 --> 00:37:36.218 align:middle line:84% This sounds pretty intense, yeah. 00:37:36.218 --> 00:37:37.510 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: We have work to do. 00:37:37.510 --> 00:37:38.510 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:37:38.510 --> 00:37:41.000 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: I mean, the country is literally 00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:44.090 align:middle line:90% saying that this is a holiday. 00:37:44.090 --> 00:37:45.090 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:37:45.090 --> 00:37:47.880 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: I think "holiday," concept, the idea is a holy day, 00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:48.380 align:middle line:90% a spiritual. 00:37:48.380 --> 00:37:49.380 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:37:49.380 --> 00:37:51.440 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Something that's much greater than-- 00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:52.990 align:middle line:90% something that's not simplistic. 00:37:52.990 --> 00:37:55.560 align:middle line:84% It's much greater than a small thing, 00:37:55.560 --> 00:37:58.740 align:middle line:84% and literally saying that we're going to say we're 00:37:58.740 --> 00:38:00.990 align:middle line:84% going to serve this as a holiday, 00:38:00.990 --> 00:38:03.810 align:middle line:90% and it's not a time off. 00:38:03.810 --> 00:38:07.510 align:middle line:84% It's literally a time to celebrate, most definitely. 00:38:07.510 --> 00:38:09.580 align:middle line:84% But we got to figure out what we're celebrating. 00:38:09.580 --> 00:38:17.186 align:middle line:84% Are we celebrating that enslaved people were freed back in 1865? 00:38:17.186 --> 00:38:19.300 align:middle line:84% Or are we coming together to build 00:38:19.300 --> 00:38:24.250 align:middle line:84% what freedom is because they've agreed to take part 00:38:24.250 --> 00:38:28.840 align:middle line:84% in that, in the mural, and our future selves, our progeny, 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:32.900 align:middle line:84% is agreeing to come to this point and help, 00:38:32.900 --> 00:38:36.310 align:middle line:84% and we are in the present also agreeing to come together 00:38:36.310 --> 00:38:39.040 align:middle line:84% to say, this is what freedom looks like for all of us? 00:38:39.040 --> 00:38:46.660 align:middle line:84% And my hopes that I can do that within a 6-foot-by-27-foot 00:38:46.660 --> 00:38:47.210 align:middle line:90% plane-- 00:38:47.210 --> 00:38:48.758 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: I'm sure you will. 00:38:48.758 --> 00:38:50.300 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: --with all of that in it. 00:38:50.300 --> 00:38:53.430 align:middle line:84% But in my head, it's already there. 00:38:53.430 --> 00:38:55.763 align:middle line:90% I'll be honest with you. 00:38:55.763 --> 00:38:57.180 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, I'm not-- 00:38:57.180 --> 00:38:58.630 align:middle line:84% is anybody keeping track of the time? 00:38:58.630 --> 00:38:59.030 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: I'm sorry. 00:38:59.030 --> 00:38:59.460 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: How are we-- 00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:01.377 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: I tend to talk too much sometimes. 00:39:01.377 --> 00:39:03.360 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: What's that? 00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:04.110 align:middle line:90% 12 minutes? 00:39:04.110 --> 00:39:05.090 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:39:05.090 --> 00:39:07.130 align:middle line:84% Did people want time for questions? 00:39:07.130 --> 00:39:08.580 align:middle line:90% Because I-- OK, you do? 00:39:08.580 --> 00:39:10.690 align:middle line:84% OK, I just have one more question I want to ask. 00:39:10.690 --> 00:39:13.470 align:middle line:84% And we probably can both talk about this 00:39:13.470 --> 00:39:15.190 align:middle line:84% because I have my feelings about it. 00:39:15.190 --> 00:39:15.780 align:middle line:90% You might have yours. 00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:16.710 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: I'm sorry, let's ask you some questions. 00:39:16.710 --> 00:39:17.940 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Oh, no, it's OK. 00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:19.030 align:middle line:90% You're the star here. 00:39:19.030 --> 00:39:23.500 align:middle line:84% I'm just-- no, because the whole idea of a federal holiday-- 00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:24.330 align:middle line:90% I don't know if-- 00:39:24.330 --> 00:39:26.070 align:middle line:90% I think you're younger than me. 00:39:26.070 --> 00:39:27.015 align:middle line:84% I'm going to give you that compliment. 00:39:27.015 --> 00:39:27.270 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: 54. 00:39:27.270 --> 00:39:28.680 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: 54, you're not that much younger. 00:39:28.680 --> 00:39:31.020 align:middle line:84% Anyway, so do you remember when Martin Luther King 00:39:31.020 --> 00:39:32.195 align:middle line:90% birthday became a holiday? 00:39:32.195 --> 00:39:32.530 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Mm-hmm. 00:39:32.530 --> 00:39:34.160 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Remember how people screeched about it? 00:39:34.160 --> 00:39:35.033 align:middle line:90% Yeah, OK, so-- 00:39:35.033 --> 00:39:35.700 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yes. 00:39:35.700 --> 00:39:37.950 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: --I've seen the deja vu thing going 00:39:37.950 --> 00:39:42.240 align:middle line:84% on a little bit if you watch certain news networks and people 00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:43.480 align:middle line:90% are complaining about it. 00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:45.520 align:middle line:90% So I'm like, yes. 00:39:45.520 --> 00:39:48.450 align:middle line:84% And now, some of those same people, they're 00:39:48.450 --> 00:39:52.750 align:middle line:84% appropriating King for other agendas, those same people. 00:39:52.750 --> 00:39:55.140 align:middle line:84% But anyway, so now it's a federal holiday. 00:39:55.140 --> 00:39:59.520 align:middle line:84% And yeah, the latter kind of agenda that you presented 00:39:59.520 --> 00:40:00.815 align:middle line:90% is beautiful. 00:40:00.815 --> 00:40:03.040 align:middle line:84% That would be wonderful, this kind 00:40:03.040 --> 00:40:07.060 align:middle line:84% of looking at it as we're a work in progress, 00:40:07.060 --> 00:40:09.760 align:middle line:84% almost, as opposed to it's just a day off. 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:10.510 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Right. 00:40:10.510 --> 00:40:12.800 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: And I'm just-- 00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:15.632 align:middle line:84% I guess my question, because I'm not sure I have an answer-- 00:40:15.632 --> 00:40:17.090 align:middle line:84% I have a lot of thoughts about it-- 00:40:17.090 --> 00:40:22.580 align:middle line:84% is, is there great historical significance in the fact 00:40:22.580 --> 00:40:24.800 align:middle line:84% that now the federal government has said 00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:28.450 align:middle line:90% it's a holiday as opposed to. 00:40:28.450 --> 00:40:31.300 align:middle line:84% African American people who spread it 00:40:31.300 --> 00:40:35.470 align:middle line:84% throughout the country, again, from this little town in Texas 00:40:35.470 --> 00:40:40.070 align:middle line:84% declaring it a holiday and having 00:40:40.070 --> 00:40:45.470 align:middle line:84% our own kind of autonomous kind of celebrations 00:40:45.470 --> 00:40:47.400 align:middle line:90% or commemorations around it? 00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:50.548 align:middle line:84% Will it lose some meaning as it goes mainstream? 00:40:50.548 --> 00:40:52.340 align:middle line:84% And then, of course, the other part of that 00:40:52.340 --> 00:40:54.813 align:middle line:84% is-- and this is, I think-- because I 00:40:54.813 --> 00:40:56.230 align:middle line:84% was reading something about, yeah, 00:40:56.230 --> 00:40:59.330 align:middle line:84% that this is a holiday for everyone, regardless 00:40:59.330 --> 00:41:00.810 align:middle line:84% of whether they're Black or white. 00:41:00.810 --> 00:41:04.310 align:middle line:84% So I guess I'm just curious your feelings about both, first 00:41:04.310 --> 00:41:06.530 align:middle line:84% of all, it being a federal holiday 00:41:06.530 --> 00:41:11.120 align:middle line:84% and is it going to become kind of what happens, 00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:13.730 align:middle line:84% or what are ways in which everyone 00:41:13.730 --> 00:41:15.660 align:middle line:84% can find meaning in this holiday, 00:41:15.660 --> 00:41:18.060 align:middle line:90% whether you're Black or white? 00:41:18.060 --> 00:41:20.010 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: I would-- 00:41:20.010 --> 00:41:22.513 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Or Latino or Asian or whatever, yeah. 00:41:22.513 --> 00:41:24.930 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: We as Black folks are skeptical about anything 00:41:24.930 --> 00:41:27.040 align:middle line:90% that the country does for us. 00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:29.360 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Really? 00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:31.110 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: There's a bit of a skepticism 00:41:31.110 --> 00:41:34.890 align:middle line:90% there because it's almost-- 00:41:34.890 --> 00:41:37.390 align:middle line:90% and I hate this feeling. 00:41:37.390 --> 00:41:43.700 align:middle line:84% I don't hate saying it, but I hate this feeling that when-- 00:41:43.700 --> 00:41:44.768 align:middle line:90% and I won't even say-- 00:41:44.768 --> 00:41:47.060 align:middle line:84% I won't even put race on it, because we as Black people 00:41:47.060 --> 00:41:48.070 align:middle line:90% do it to ourselves, too. 00:41:48.070 --> 00:41:49.070 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:41:49.070 --> 00:41:54.440 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: But this thing that the government is saying, 00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:59.090 align:middle line:84% here you go, you now have less to complain about-- 00:41:59.090 --> 00:42:00.288 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:42:00.288 --> 00:42:01.830 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: We had a Black president. 00:42:01.830 --> 00:42:04.700 align:middle line:90% Why are you complaining? 00:42:04.700 --> 00:42:05.850 align:middle line:90% We have this. 00:42:05.850 --> 00:42:07.370 align:middle line:90% We've given you these things. 00:42:07.370 --> 00:42:08.830 align:middle line:90% Why are you still complaining? 00:42:08.830 --> 00:42:13.620 align:middle line:84% So there is a little bit of that that is a major part of it. 00:42:13.620 --> 00:42:16.320 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:21.370 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: But I look at the idea of the 4th of July. 00:42:21.370 --> 00:42:23.440 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:27.370 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: It is not about independence 00:42:27.370 --> 00:42:29.880 align:middle line:90% when I'm outside grilling. 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:30.880 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:32.047 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: It really isn't. 00:42:32.047 --> 00:42:36.480 align:middle line:84% But you do find a lot of people that take that to heart. 00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:37.480 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:39.880 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So I think both can happen. 00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:44.290 align:middle line:84% But I think we do have to have some skepticism, not for-- 00:42:44.290 --> 00:42:47.630 align:middle line:84% and maybe not per se for the government itself, 00:42:47.630 --> 00:42:52.840 align:middle line:84% but to kind of look at us to say that we don't allow 00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:57.090 align:middle line:84% it to somehow become the part where it's just 00:42:57.090 --> 00:42:58.070 align:middle line:90% about grilling outside. 00:42:58.070 --> 00:42:59.650 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Lure us into complacency. 00:42:59.650 --> 00:43:00.790 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, yeah. 00:43:00.790 --> 00:43:04.110 align:middle line:84% And that's that scary part that it might have 00:43:04.110 --> 00:43:05.840 align:middle line:90% that little bit of idea that-- 00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:06.840 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:07.360 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: --here you go. 00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:08.920 align:middle line:84% You don't have to work anymore for freedom. 00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:09.370 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:43:09.370 --> 00:43:09.940 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: You got freedom. 00:43:09.940 --> 00:43:11.280 align:middle line:90% We're celebrating freedom. 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:11.700 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:43:11.700 --> 00:43:12.640 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Why are you complaining? 00:43:12.640 --> 00:43:12.900 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:14.775 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So it's always that-- no, I mean, 00:43:14.775 --> 00:43:16.600 align:middle line:84% I have that same thing about reparations, 00:43:16.600 --> 00:43:18.910 align:middle line:84% which is a little bit of a scary thing, 00:43:18.910 --> 00:43:23.572 align:middle line:84% I mean, adding on to this idea that, well, you 00:43:23.572 --> 00:43:25.780 align:middle line:84% don't have to complain anymore because you have this, 00:43:25.780 --> 00:43:27.570 align:middle line:84% you have this, you have this, but not 00:43:27.570 --> 00:43:31.350 align:middle line:84% recognizing that once that thing is 00:43:31.350 --> 00:43:35.100 align:middle line:84% kind of-- once that kind of water level is moving up, 00:43:35.100 --> 00:43:37.530 align:middle line:84% it changes the way we see things. 00:43:37.530 --> 00:43:42.130 align:middle line:84% So, yeah, we still need to complain right now. 00:43:42.130 --> 00:43:44.280 align:middle line:84% Yeah, we're a little bit better off than we were 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:46.182 align:middle line:90% in the '60s, by all means. 00:43:46.182 --> 00:43:48.640 align:middle line:84% But we're dealing with things a little bit differently now. 00:43:48.640 --> 00:43:51.660 align:middle line:84% So racism and all these things are hiding in different ways. 00:43:51.660 --> 00:43:52.660 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:43:52.660 --> 00:43:55.077 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: So we're trying to find those different ways-- 00:43:55.077 --> 00:43:57.050 align:middle line:90% so it's kind of that. 00:43:57.050 --> 00:43:59.300 align:middle line:84% So it's a little bit of fear and skepticism, 00:43:59.300 --> 00:44:01.280 align:middle line:90% but it's going to be us to-- 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:03.970 align:middle line:84% I mean, if we take it and say that this 00:44:03.970 --> 00:44:07.715 align:middle line:84% is what it is, it's a little bit harder for somebody else to say, 00:44:07.715 --> 00:44:09.090 align:middle line:84% well, you don't have to complain, 00:44:09.090 --> 00:44:12.350 align:middle line:84% because the government is now giving you-- 00:44:12.350 --> 00:44:14.320 align:middle line:84% that "giving you"-- no, we work for it. 00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:15.320 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:17.060 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: They're recognizing it. 00:44:17.060 --> 00:44:18.830 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Recognize what we've already established. 00:44:18.830 --> 00:44:19.930 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, exactly. 00:44:19.930 --> 00:44:21.390 align:middle line:90% And I apologize. 00:44:21.390 --> 00:44:22.890 align:middle line:84% What was the other part of it, then? 00:44:22.890 --> 00:44:24.348 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Basically, well, 00:44:24.348 --> 00:44:25.970 align:middle line:84% how can everyone find meaning in it? 00:44:25.970 --> 00:44:28.160 align:middle line:84% Despite whether or not their ancestors 00:44:28.160 --> 00:44:30.980 align:middle line:84% were enslaved, if you're an American, 00:44:30.980 --> 00:44:34.620 align:middle line:84% how can you find meaning in this particular holiday? 00:44:34.620 --> 00:44:36.962 align:middle line:84% I have my own answer, but I'm curious to what you-- 00:44:36.962 --> 00:44:38.420 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: We've been told to find 00:44:38.420 --> 00:44:41.420 align:middle line:84% meaning in things that don't look like us since we've 00:44:41.420 --> 00:44:42.000 align:middle line:90% been here. 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:42.540 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: There we go. 00:44:42.540 --> 00:44:43.830 align:middle line:90% Yeah, that's true. 00:44:43.830 --> 00:44:44.330 align:middle line:90% That's true. 00:44:44.330 --> 00:44:45.450 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Find meaning in it. 00:44:45.450 --> 00:44:46.100 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:44:46.100 --> 00:44:46.920 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Very easy. 00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:47.920 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:50.340 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: It's easy if you attempt to find the meaning. 00:44:50.340 --> 00:44:50.880 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:52.922 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: But if you're literally saying, well, 00:44:52.922 --> 00:44:57.810 align:middle line:84% that is not me, then you're the problem. 00:44:57.810 --> 00:45:03.095 align:middle line:84% And it's kind of difficult, for lack of better words-- 00:45:03.095 --> 00:45:04.470 align:middle line:84% and I'm an inclusive-type person, 00:45:04.470 --> 00:45:09.080 align:middle line:84% but it's difficult for some in white America to be told, 00:45:09.080 --> 00:45:10.690 align:middle line:90% you have to do some work. 00:45:10.690 --> 00:45:12.230 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:45:12.230 --> 00:45:13.590 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: That's different. 00:45:13.590 --> 00:45:17.330 align:middle line:84% I mean, even with the idea of imagery of, like, Christ figure, 00:45:17.330 --> 00:45:20.240 align:middle line:84% like, OK, well, what happens if we 00:45:20.240 --> 00:45:25.480 align:middle line:84% were to literally find the DNA of Christ and he looks like me? 00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:28.400 align:middle line:90% Are you less religious now? 00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:31.060 align:middle line:84% You've been kind of bowing down to this person. 00:45:31.060 --> 00:45:32.770 align:middle line:84% Does it matter that this person is-- 00:45:32.770 --> 00:45:33.040 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, yeah. 00:45:33.040 --> 00:45:35.355 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Did he not teach you these things? 00:45:35.355 --> 00:45:37.480 align:middle line:84% Are you not able to get this information because he 00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:38.920 align:middle line:90% looks different than you? 00:45:38.920 --> 00:45:42.580 align:middle line:90% So, yeah, I mean, it's OK for-- 00:45:42.580 --> 00:45:47.660 align:middle line:84% I think it's OK for us to say we as Black people can 00:45:47.660 --> 00:45:51.290 align:middle line:90% teach through our actions. 00:45:51.290 --> 00:45:52.530 align:middle line:90% It's not all negative. 00:45:52.530 --> 00:45:53.370 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, yeah. 00:45:53.370 --> 00:45:54.745 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: I mean, you shouldn't 00:45:54.745 --> 00:45:58.190 align:middle line:84% have to struggle to learn if somebody 00:45:58.190 --> 00:46:02.360 align:middle line:84% is giving you or finding or helping you find a path to what 00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:04.130 align:middle line:90% could be considered goodness-- 00:46:04.130 --> 00:46:05.130 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:46:05.130 --> 00:46:06.255 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: --and equality. 00:46:06.255 --> 00:46:07.255 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:46:07.255 --> 00:46:09.030 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Don't you want to be equal? 00:46:09.030 --> 00:46:09.380 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:46:09.380 --> 00:46:10.580 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Isn't that what we are saying 00:46:10.580 --> 00:46:11.730 align:middle line:90% that this country is about? 00:46:11.730 --> 00:46:14.520 align:middle line:84% Everybody has the-- it's not everybody getting a trophy. 00:46:14.520 --> 00:46:16.920 align:middle line:84% But if you're working towards some things, 00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:20.810 align:middle line:84% and everybody has the ability to do this, 00:46:20.810 --> 00:46:25.280 align:middle line:84% and this person is giving you a pathway to that, why would you 00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:30.060 align:middle line:90% not follow that model? 00:46:30.060 --> 00:46:31.060 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:46:31.060 --> 00:46:34.360 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, so I'm hoping and I'm praying that once 00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:37.810 align:middle line:84% the mural is there that it's not otherism 00:46:37.810 --> 00:46:38.990 align:middle line:90% that people are seeing-- 00:46:38.990 --> 00:46:39.990 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:46:39.990 --> 00:46:42.190 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: --that it's a sense that, oh, man, 00:46:42.190 --> 00:46:43.910 align:middle line:84% I guess we all do have to come together. 00:46:43.910 --> 00:46:45.445 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, this is the story of humanity-- 00:46:45.445 --> 00:46:45.940 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, yeah. 00:46:45.940 --> 00:46:46.600 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: --as well as-- 00:46:46.600 --> 00:46:47.600 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: And we're part of it. 00:46:47.600 --> 00:46:48.170 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: And that's-- yeah. 00:46:48.170 --> 00:46:49.400 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, yeah. 00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:51.860 align:middle line:90% And I think that that's the-- 00:46:51.860 --> 00:46:55.100 align:middle line:90% it's just going to take work. 00:46:55.100 --> 00:46:59.150 align:middle line:84% Sometimes people are afraid to work, I guess. 00:46:59.150 --> 00:47:00.687 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:47:00.687 --> 00:47:02.520 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: I guess that would be my answer. 00:47:02.520 --> 00:47:04.270 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, great, thank you. 00:47:04.270 --> 00:47:04.860 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:47:04.860 --> 00:47:06.335 align:middle line:90% Thank you very much. 00:47:06.335 --> 00:47:07.460 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Thank you, too. 00:47:07.460 --> 00:47:09.770 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, I appreciate the-- 00:47:09.770 --> 00:47:12.320 align:middle line:90% I didn't have to do much, yeah. 00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:16.260 align:middle line:84% So we're going to open up the questions from the audience 00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:17.960 align:middle line:90% if anybody-- 00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:21.368 align:middle line:84% want to raise a hand, or comments, or-- 00:47:21.368 --> 00:47:23.160 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Hopefully I said it just right. 00:47:23.160 --> 00:47:25.605 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:47:25.605 --> 00:47:28.532 align:middle line:90% 00:47:28.532 --> 00:47:29.865 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yes, Rebecca? 00:47:29.865 --> 00:47:31.988 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I wanted to know your thoughts on that last question 00:47:31.988 --> 00:47:32.922 align:middle line:90% that you asked. 00:47:32.922 --> 00:47:36.620 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Oh, yeah, yeah. 00:47:36.620 --> 00:47:38.780 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: For me, it's like, yeah, this 00:47:38.780 --> 00:47:41.520 align:middle line:90% is a huge historical event. 00:47:41.520 --> 00:47:44.540 align:middle line:84% This is a watershed, not just in the history of the United 00:47:44.540 --> 00:47:46.940 align:middle line:84% States, but in the history of humanity, right? 00:47:46.940 --> 00:47:49.790 align:middle line:84% And so I think that if you're a human being, 00:47:49.790 --> 00:47:52.602 align:middle line:84% you should find some meaning in this, you know? 00:47:52.602 --> 00:47:55.040 align:middle line:90% And again, it's 1865. 00:47:55.040 --> 00:47:57.300 align:middle line:90% 2,000 US Army-- 00:47:57.300 --> 00:47:58.320 align:middle line:90% I hate to say Union-- 00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:01.260 align:middle line:84% I always say US Army soldiers came, 00:48:01.260 --> 00:48:05.300 align:middle line:84% and they had to force these individuals to relinquish 00:48:05.300 --> 00:48:09.170 align:middle line:84% these people who-- the United States government had 00:48:09.170 --> 00:48:10.860 align:middle line:90% said we're no longer property. 00:48:10.860 --> 00:48:11.970 align:middle line:90% And they did that. 00:48:11.970 --> 00:48:14.690 align:middle line:90% They did it enthusiastically. 00:48:14.690 --> 00:48:17.450 align:middle line:84% So, yeah, I think everyone should 00:48:17.450 --> 00:48:22.430 align:middle line:84% be able to relate to this as a citizen of the United States 00:48:22.430 --> 00:48:27.630 align:middle line:84% and see as, again, there was this moment from 1865, 00:48:27.630 --> 00:48:32.800 align:middle line:84% 1867, when African Americans were senators, were congressmen, 00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:35.040 align:middle line:90% were judges, were sheriffs. 00:48:35.040 --> 00:48:37.860 align:middle line:84% We had this brief moment when we're voting at-- like, 00:48:37.860 --> 00:48:40.980 align:middle line:90% 90% is the turnout rate. 00:48:40.980 --> 00:48:43.780 align:middle line:84% This is huge that this actually happened. 00:48:43.780 --> 00:48:48.990 align:middle line:84% And so I think there's a lot of hope in that for everyone. 00:48:48.990 --> 00:48:52.080 align:middle line:84% And African Americans didn't take revenge 00:48:52.080 --> 00:48:54.640 align:middle line:84% when they had majority governments. 00:48:54.640 --> 00:48:56.770 align:middle line:84% It's not going to be so bad to be a minority. 00:48:56.770 --> 00:48:57.325 align:middle line:90% Just chill. 00:48:57.325 --> 00:48:58.450 align:middle line:90% It's going to be all right. 00:48:58.450 --> 00:49:01.530 align:middle line:84% And I think that if more people kind of 00:49:01.530 --> 00:49:06.300 align:middle line:84% could do the work, which is not that difficult to just learn 00:49:06.300 --> 00:49:11.550 align:middle line:84% the history and see Black people as human beings, 00:49:11.550 --> 00:49:13.330 align:middle line:90% as part of humanity. 00:49:13.330 --> 00:49:15.780 align:middle line:84% So that would be my thing is that I 00:49:15.780 --> 00:49:19.630 align:middle line:84% think it should be quite relatable to everyone, 00:49:19.630 --> 00:49:20.260 align:middle line:90% hopefully. 00:49:20.260 --> 00:49:22.770 align:middle line:84% And hopefully, people are willing to put in that work 00:49:22.770 --> 00:49:23.980 align:middle line:90% to make it relatable. 00:49:23.980 --> 00:49:27.603 align:middle line:84% So that's my feeling on it, yeah. 00:49:27.603 --> 00:49:30.270 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: And that was always strange to me when I was younger 00:49:30.270 --> 00:49:32.850 align:middle line:84% and I would see the pictures of Reconstruction and seeing 00:49:32.850 --> 00:49:35.770 align:middle line:84% these beautiful images of these-- 00:49:35.770 --> 00:49:39.010 align:middle line:84% I mean, unfortunately, it was very masculine, too, 00:49:39.010 --> 00:49:41.200 align:middle line:84% so that's a conversation as well. 00:49:41.200 --> 00:49:43.590 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, sexism was still alive and well. 00:49:43.590 --> 00:49:44.770 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Exactly. 00:49:44.770 --> 00:49:46.928 align:middle line:90% So-- seeing those images. 00:49:46.928 --> 00:49:48.970 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, it was mostly Black men, 00:49:48.970 --> 00:49:55.740 align:middle line:84% but it was this weird moment before everything went to-- 00:49:55.740 --> 00:49:57.800 align:middle line:84% went in a very different direction. 00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:00.280 align:middle line:84% And that's kind of more of the historical memory 00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:03.932 align:middle line:84% rather than Juneteenth and Reconstruction. 00:50:03.932 --> 00:50:06.850 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: The country has a tendency to look at that era-- 00:50:06.850 --> 00:50:08.030 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: They think of Jim Crow, 00:50:08.030 --> 00:50:10.040 align:middle line:84% and they don't think of what happened before Jim Crow, yeah. 00:50:10.040 --> 00:50:12.407 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: I think there were some positives to have. 00:50:12.407 --> 00:50:13.990 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: And the possibility 00:50:13.990 --> 00:50:15.260 align:middle line:90% of a different country. 00:50:15.260 --> 00:50:17.260 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:50:17.260 --> 00:50:20.120 align:middle line:84% It always seemed like whenever I was looking at those images, 00:50:20.120 --> 00:50:23.220 align:middle line:84% almost like history teacher's like, nah, get away from there. 00:50:23.220 --> 00:50:24.470 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah, yeah. 00:50:24.470 --> 00:50:25.300 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Right? 00:50:25.300 --> 00:50:27.760 align:middle line:90% Like that didn't exist. 00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:29.760 align:middle line:84% Black people, they had some power. 00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:30.760 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:32.680 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: What was this-- was this about? 00:50:32.680 --> 00:50:34.180 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:50:34.180 --> 00:50:36.830 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:50:36.830 --> 00:50:39.030 align:middle line:90% Any other comments or questions? 00:50:39.030 --> 00:50:42.420 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I just wanted to say thank you 00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:47.090 align:middle line:84% for sharing your experience and giving 00:50:47.090 --> 00:50:51.970 align:middle line:84% more insight to what Juneteenth has meant to you over all the-- 00:50:51.970 --> 00:50:55.132 align:middle line:84% until right now, I had the definition of it. 00:50:55.132 --> 00:50:55.840 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:50:55.840 --> 00:51:00.486 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: But you just gave me more detailed insight of it. 00:51:00.486 --> 00:51:04.860 align:middle line:84% And it definitely-- I sat here, and it means more to me now. 00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:05.850 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Thank you. 00:51:05.850 --> 00:51:07.060 align:middle line:90% Cool, good. 00:51:07.060 --> 00:51:07.810 align:middle line:90% I appreciate that. 00:51:07.810 --> 00:51:09.230 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: So that definitely [INAUDIBLE]. 00:51:09.230 --> 00:51:10.040 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Truly appreciate it. 00:51:10.040 --> 00:51:11.873 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Especially about the freedom part. 00:51:11.873 --> 00:51:18.585 align:middle line:84% That hit me spot-on [INAUDIBLE] now [INAUDIBLE]. 00:51:18.585 --> 00:51:19.460 align:middle line:90% So I agree with that. 00:51:19.460 --> 00:51:20.377 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Thank you. 00:51:20.377 --> 00:51:21.110 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:51:21.110 --> 00:51:22.020 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: It's one of my students. 00:51:22.020 --> 00:51:22.978 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Takes work. 00:51:22.978 --> 00:51:24.350 align:middle line:90% Hey, there you go. 00:51:24.350 --> 00:51:25.650 align:middle line:90% Perfect. 00:51:25.650 --> 00:51:27.320 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: I can't take credit. 00:51:27.320 --> 00:51:29.695 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Some extra credit and some extra information. 00:51:29.695 --> 00:51:31.610 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:51:31.610 --> 00:51:32.110 align:middle line:90% Exactly. 00:51:32.110 --> 00:51:35.000 align:middle line:90% 00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:36.770 align:middle line:90% That's a good one. 00:51:36.770 --> 00:51:37.460 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:51:37.460 --> 00:51:37.740 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:51:37.740 --> 00:51:38.370 align:middle line:90% That means a lot. 00:51:38.370 --> 00:51:39.287 align:middle line:90% I truly appreciate it. 00:51:39.287 --> 00:51:40.122 align:middle line:90% Truly appreciate it. 00:51:40.122 --> 00:51:41.330 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: All right. 00:51:41.330 --> 00:51:43.932 align:middle line:90% OK, well, do we have another-- 00:51:43.932 --> 00:51:45.140 align:middle line:90% do you have a-- oh, yeah, hi. 00:51:45.140 --> 00:51:47.120 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Can I just really quick [INAUDIBLE] 00:51:47.120 --> 00:51:49.412 align:middle line:84% back to the beginning, you were saying that [INAUDIBLE] 00:51:49.412 --> 00:51:50.090 align:middle line:90% an artist. 00:51:50.090 --> 00:51:54.545 align:middle line:84% As a musician who always took my [INAUDIBLE] by force, 00:51:54.545 --> 00:51:57.638 align:middle line:84% do you think if you had grown up without [INAUDIBLE] you 00:51:57.638 --> 00:51:58.762 align:middle line:90% would still be an artist? 00:51:58.762 --> 00:51:59.470 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Whoa. 00:51:59.470 --> 00:52:02.820 align:middle line:90% That's a good one. 00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:05.100 align:middle line:90% Man, I hope I would. 00:52:05.100 --> 00:52:05.950 align:middle line:90% I hope I would have. 00:52:05.950 --> 00:52:06.630 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: I feel like artists 00:52:06.630 --> 00:52:08.080 align:middle line:90% are some determined people. 00:52:08.080 --> 00:52:08.963 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Man. 00:52:08.963 --> 00:52:11.130 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: I had a brother who's a musician, 00:52:11.130 --> 00:52:14.820 align:middle line:90% and they'll suffer. 00:52:14.820 --> 00:52:18.520 align:middle line:84% I'm like, I'm not going to suffer like that for years. 00:52:18.520 --> 00:52:21.370 align:middle line:84% I'd be like, nah, I'm fixing to get a job. 00:52:21.370 --> 00:52:23.880 align:middle line:90% But I would-- I bet you-- 00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:26.470 align:middle line:84% I feel like, still, it depends on the artist, 00:52:26.470 --> 00:52:28.540 align:middle line:84% but I feel like people who really got it in them, 00:52:28.540 --> 00:52:29.500 align:middle line:90% you can't stop them. 00:52:29.500 --> 00:52:32.070 align:middle line:84% That's been my observation looking in as someone 00:52:32.070 --> 00:52:34.440 align:middle line:84% who has no artistic ability whatsoever 00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:36.730 align:middle line:84% that I'm just like, wow, they're determined. 00:52:36.730 --> 00:52:37.438 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:52:37.438 --> 00:52:39.217 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: So I don't know. 00:52:39.217 --> 00:52:41.050 align:middle line:84% Probably like that young lady you described, 00:52:41.050 --> 00:52:42.550 align:middle line:84% you said she's just a natural painter. 00:52:42.550 --> 00:52:42.820 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:52:42.820 --> 00:52:43.060 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: She's probably 00:52:43.060 --> 00:52:44.310 align:middle line:90% going to paint no matter what. 00:52:44.310 --> 00:52:45.310 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, yeah. 00:52:45.310 --> 00:52:46.310 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:52:46.310 --> 00:52:51.300 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: I would say, to answer the question as 00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:58.140 align:middle line:84% succinctly as possible, I feel like I would have continued-- 00:52:58.140 --> 00:53:01.500 align:middle line:84% and I won't even fill in the blank on what "continued" 00:53:01.500 --> 00:53:03.970 align:middle line:90% would be. 00:53:03.970 --> 00:53:07.930 align:middle line:84% But it would feel so strange for my foundation, my parents 00:53:07.930 --> 00:53:15.220 align:middle line:84% and family and all that, not to have been a helpful and creative 00:53:15.220 --> 00:53:17.450 align:middle line:90% foundation. 00:53:17.450 --> 00:53:25.090 align:middle line:84% But I guess in my heart, I think I would have been 00:53:25.090 --> 00:53:27.190 align:middle line:90% a creative person regardless. 00:53:27.190 --> 00:53:31.840 align:middle line:90% And here's the honest part-- 00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:33.350 align:middle line:84% I'm not saying I was lying before, 00:53:33.350 --> 00:53:34.730 align:middle line:90% but here's the honest part. 00:53:34.730 --> 00:53:37.060 align:middle line:84% I would have found art in what I was doing. 00:53:37.060 --> 00:53:41.280 align:middle line:84% Even if I was not, quote unquote, "creating" 00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:46.830 align:middle line:84% visual works that I'm putting on walls or filling space with, 00:53:46.830 --> 00:53:50.820 align:middle line:84% I would have looked at everything within the mindset 00:53:50.820 --> 00:53:52.450 align:middle line:90% of a creative person. 00:53:52.450 --> 00:53:58.440 align:middle line:84% And my hope is that the visual art would have found me 00:53:58.440 --> 00:53:59.940 align:middle line:90% at that point in time. 00:53:59.940 --> 00:54:04.300 align:middle line:84% So I truly believe I would have still been an artist. 00:54:04.300 --> 00:54:10.720 align:middle line:84% And I think that might be the allowance that my parents would 00:54:10.720 --> 00:54:11.630 align:middle line:90% not have given me. 00:54:11.630 --> 00:54:12.760 align:middle line:90% I might have found that. 00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:15.250 align:middle line:84% Just like you, I probably would have found it in myself. 00:54:15.250 --> 00:54:20.080 align:middle line:84% So, I mean, I truly appreciate the idea 00:54:20.080 --> 00:54:24.760 align:middle line:84% that you took your own allowance in your own hands. 00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:26.610 align:middle line:84% Yeah, sometimes that has to happen. 00:54:26.610 --> 00:54:29.890 align:middle line:84% But in doing so, you do find a community, 00:54:29.890 --> 00:54:34.430 align:middle line:84% a lot of times, that helps to build the foundation for you 00:54:34.430 --> 00:54:36.840 align:middle line:90% and helps give more allowance. 00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:39.110 align:middle line:84% So that's one thing I always tell young artists, 00:54:39.110 --> 00:54:42.420 align:middle line:90% to find a community. 00:54:42.420 --> 00:54:45.200 align:middle line:84% If you can't find one, build one. 00:54:45.200 --> 00:54:49.300 align:middle line:84% So I think you started building your community, so yeah. 00:54:49.300 --> 00:54:49.970 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:54:49.970 --> 00:54:50.887 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: OK. 00:54:50.887 --> 00:54:52.002 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:54:52.002 --> 00:54:53.210 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: All right. 00:54:53.210 --> 00:54:53.630 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Yeah. 00:54:53.630 --> 00:54:54.900 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: All right, well, thank you again, 00:54:54.900 --> 00:54:56.100 align:middle line:90% everybody, for coming. 00:54:56.100 --> 00:54:56.560 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Thank you all. 00:54:56.560 --> 00:54:58.477 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: It's been a great pleasure. 00:54:58.477 --> 00:54:59.900 align:middle line:90% I appreciate the time. 00:54:59.900 --> 00:55:00.650 align:middle line:90% And thank you. 00:55:00.650 --> 00:55:01.440 align:middle line:90% Thank you, Sam. 00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:01.850 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Thank you. 00:55:01.850 --> 00:55:02.852 align:middle line:90% Excuse the cold hands. 00:55:02.852 --> 00:55:04.310 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: No worries, man. 00:55:04.310 --> 00:55:06.740 align:middle line:90% It's all good. 00:55:06.740 --> 00:55:07.560 align:middle line:90% It's good. 00:55:07.560 --> 00:55:08.477 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Thank you. 00:55:08.477 --> 00:55:10.060 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: I knew it was going 00:55:10.060 --> 00:55:12.600 align:middle line:84% to be easy because you're very enthusiastic about your work. 00:55:12.600 --> 00:55:14.277 align:middle line:90% I'd just chill. 00:55:14.277 --> 00:55:15.860 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: I love the questions, too. 00:55:15.860 --> 00:55:16.560 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:55:16.560 --> 00:55:17.460 align:middle line:90% SAM DUNSON: Made me think. 00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:17.930 align:middle line:90% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Yeah. 00:55:17.930 --> 00:55:19.290 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Oops, I forgot I had this on. 00:55:19.290 --> 00:55:20.090 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: Oh, you're still connected. 00:55:20.090 --> 00:55:21.673 align:middle line:84% SAM DUNSON: Yeah, I forgot about that. 00:55:21.673 --> 00:55:23.620 align:middle line:84% OMAR DPHREPAULEZZ: Oh, yeah, that's right. 00:55:23.620 --> 00:55:58.000 align:middle line:90%