WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.896 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:00:03.896 --> 00:00:11.690 align:middle line:90% 00:00:11.690 --> 00:00:13.700 align:middle line:84% So this is a really good opportunity 00:00:13.700 --> 00:00:15.950 align:middle line:90% to introduce the panel. 00:00:15.950 --> 00:00:20.000 align:middle line:84% So Brody Albert is an art professor here at 性视界. 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:23.450 align:middle line:84% Mark Ikeda is emeritus professor of biology 00:00:23.450 --> 00:00:27.860 align:middle line:84% at San Bernardino Valley College and a 性视界 alum. 00:00:27.860 --> 00:00:30.350 align:middle line:84% Ryan Falcioni is also a 性视界 alum 00:00:30.350 --> 00:00:34.910 align:middle line:84% and is a philosophy professor here at 性视界. 00:00:34.910 --> 00:00:40.190 align:middle line:84% Sergio G贸mez is a sociology professor at 性视界 and Ann 00:00:40.190 --> 00:00:44.990 align:middle line:84% Kaneko, filmmaker, scripts professor is going-- 00:00:44.990 --> 00:00:51.350 align:middle line:84% is on the freeway as we speak and she'll be coming in. 00:00:51.350 --> 00:00:53.018 align:middle line:84% She actually-- and I know that one 00:00:53.018 --> 00:00:55.560 align:middle line:84% of the things she's going to be showing is a trailer for her, 00:00:55.560 --> 00:01:00.270 align:middle line:84% I think Emmy nominated or Emmy Award-winning short documentary 00:01:00.270 --> 00:01:04.290 align:middle line:84% Manzanar, Diverted; When Water Becomes Dust. 00:01:04.290 --> 00:01:09.540 align:middle line:84% So-- oh, and I'm Robin Ikeda, the moderator and emerita 00:01:09.540 --> 00:01:14.490 align:middle line:90% professor of biology at 性视界. 00:01:14.490 --> 00:01:18.515 align:middle line:84% Emerita means retired and engaged. 00:01:18.515 --> 00:01:21.270 align:middle line:90% 00:01:21.270 --> 00:01:27.770 align:middle line:84% And so-- so you're here at this panel discussion titled; Am I? 00:01:27.770 --> 00:01:30.450 align:middle line:90% 00:01:30.450 --> 00:01:33.000 align:middle line:90% Am I? 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:36.910 align:middle line:84% Unveiling the illusion of individuality. 00:01:36.910 --> 00:01:42.030 align:middle line:84% And this discussion is inspired by the art exhibition 00:01:42.030 --> 00:01:45.990 align:middle line:84% up at the museum right now, titled; seeing the unseen; 00:01:45.990 --> 00:01:49.600 align:middle line:84% exploring the intersections of science and art. 00:01:49.600 --> 00:01:54.390 align:middle line:84% And the panel thought I should give a little spiel and I'll try 00:01:54.390 --> 00:01:59.050 align:middle line:84% to make it very little about how this question "Am I?" 00:01:59.050 --> 00:02:01.610 align:middle line:90% originated from this art. 00:02:01.610 --> 00:02:04.310 align:middle line:90% And so here's the deal. 00:02:04.310 --> 00:02:10.190 align:middle line:84% So in the last spring and in the summer, 00:02:10.190 --> 00:02:15.100 align:middle line:84% I'm on a team of people who is vetting like 55 artists 00:02:15.100 --> 00:02:17.570 align:middle line:84% to be represented in this exhibition. 00:02:17.570 --> 00:02:19.430 align:middle line:84% And as I'm going through the art, 00:02:19.430 --> 00:02:23.620 align:middle line:84% I'm noticing that to my surprise, because I'm 00:02:23.620 --> 00:02:26.990 align:middle line:84% a scientist, I'm not used to looking at art on-- 00:02:26.990 --> 00:02:28.690 align:middle line:90% unfortunately, I mean that-- 00:02:28.690 --> 00:02:34.370 align:middle line:84% but anyway, so I notice that a lot of these artists, 00:02:34.370 --> 00:02:36.910 align:middle line:84% most of these artists, are working 00:02:36.910 --> 00:02:40.750 align:middle line:84% right in the middle of a question that has perplexed me 00:02:40.750 --> 00:02:46.750 align:middle line:84% for almost 50 years, since I was a student at 性视界 00:02:46.750 --> 00:02:49.450 align:middle line:84% and hits you whenever you scratch 00:02:49.450 --> 00:02:54.070 align:middle line:84% the surface to try to think deeply about biological systems. 00:02:54.070 --> 00:02:56.430 align:middle line:84% So let's take sponges, for example. 00:02:56.430 --> 00:02:59.510 align:middle line:84% We have the most magnificent photograph 00:02:59.510 --> 00:03:02.190 align:middle line:84% here of a huge variety of sponges, 00:03:02.190 --> 00:03:04.347 align:middle line:90% like all growing in one place. 00:03:04.347 --> 00:03:05.930 align:middle line:84% And we think we can see the difference 00:03:05.930 --> 00:03:08.090 align:middle line:90% between the individual sponges. 00:03:08.090 --> 00:03:11.120 align:middle line:84% And we think that each of those individual sponges 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:12.238 align:middle line:90% is, in fact, a-- 00:03:12.238 --> 00:03:13.530 align:middle line:90% I mean, I even say it that way. 00:03:13.530 --> 00:03:16.520 align:middle line:84% Our language is built this way to suppose that we know 00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:19.610 align:middle line:90% the boundaries of individuals. 00:03:19.610 --> 00:03:22.490 align:middle line:90% The way these sponges work-- 00:03:22.490 --> 00:03:24.650 align:middle line:90% so for example, this guy. 00:03:24.650 --> 00:03:28.290 align:middle line:84% It's basically-- they're all animals for one. 00:03:28.290 --> 00:03:30.810 align:middle line:84% And so one weird thing is that they don't move around, 00:03:30.810 --> 00:03:33.630 align:middle line:84% but they're pumps and they pump water through them. 00:03:33.630 --> 00:03:38.340 align:middle line:84% And then they catch all of the algae, 00:03:38.340 --> 00:03:41.150 align:middle line:84% bacteria, different kinds of small critters 00:03:41.150 --> 00:03:42.450 align:middle line:90% that come through. 00:03:42.450 --> 00:03:45.170 align:middle line:84% And they eat them, they digest them 00:03:45.170 --> 00:03:50.100 align:middle line:84% and they use that material to maintain life and to reproduce. 00:03:50.100 --> 00:03:51.270 align:middle line:90% They reproduce sexually. 00:03:51.270 --> 00:03:52.500 align:middle line:90% They can make sperm and eggs. 00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:54.180 align:middle line:84% And what's really fancy about these guys 00:03:54.180 --> 00:03:56.230 align:middle line:84% is that they can even make sperm and eggs. 00:03:56.230 --> 00:03:59.650 align:middle line:84% So each individual can make both sperm and eggs, 00:03:59.650 --> 00:04:02.182 align:middle line:90% which is fancy for us. 00:04:02.182 --> 00:04:04.810 align:middle line:84% And they can also reproduce asexually. 00:04:04.810 --> 00:04:07.600 align:middle line:90% So for example, this is cool. 00:04:07.600 --> 00:04:11.980 align:middle line:84% See how this one looks like it's broken. 00:04:11.980 --> 00:04:15.040 align:middle line:84% Well, maybe a sea turtle came and munched on it, 00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:19.029 align:middle line:84% but maybe it got chipped off by a rock or something. 00:04:19.029 --> 00:04:21.390 align:middle line:84% And that little chip, that little chip can just 00:04:21.390 --> 00:04:24.030 align:middle line:84% go float around, settle and become 00:04:24.030 --> 00:04:27.240 align:middle line:90% a sponge, whatever a sponge is. 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:34.300 align:middle line:84% And by the way, you could take a sponge, put it through a sieve, 00:04:34.300 --> 00:04:38.910 align:middle line:84% separate it like the cells, and it'll self-assemble 00:04:38.910 --> 00:04:42.570 align:middle line:90% into a working sponge again. 00:04:42.570 --> 00:04:44.140 align:middle line:90% So what is a sponge? 00:04:44.140 --> 00:04:48.070 align:middle line:84% And then furthermore, those algae that it eats-- 00:04:48.070 --> 00:04:51.520 align:middle line:84% like how come these guys are so colorful, right. 00:04:51.520 --> 00:04:55.830 align:middle line:84% Because they're taking in the algae 00:04:55.830 --> 00:04:57.970 align:middle line:84% that they've quote-unquote eaten. 00:04:57.970 --> 00:05:01.420 align:middle line:84% And some of it, they digest and use it to make more sponges. 00:05:01.420 --> 00:05:04.500 align:middle line:84% But some of it, some of that algae starts-- 00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:07.660 align:middle line:84% will live inside of their cells, inside of their cells, 00:05:07.660 --> 00:05:12.150 align:middle line:84% between their cells, and do photosynthesis and make up 80-- 00:05:12.150 --> 00:05:17.490 align:middle line:84% as much as 80% of the sponge's metabolic needs. 00:05:17.490 --> 00:05:21.030 align:middle line:90% So what's a sponge? 00:05:21.030 --> 00:05:26.730 align:middle line:84% And then even then, down here, you 00:05:26.730 --> 00:05:28.750 align:middle line:84% see how it looks like the same kind of sponge, 00:05:28.750 --> 00:05:31.270 align:middle line:84% but there's two different colors, right. 00:05:31.270 --> 00:05:33.610 align:middle line:90% So two different kinds of algae. 00:05:33.610 --> 00:05:35.790 align:middle line:84% That's what that's about with different pigments 00:05:35.790 --> 00:05:37.450 align:middle line:90% doing photosynthesis. 00:05:37.450 --> 00:05:39.907 align:middle line:84% And you know what I said about fragmentation 00:05:39.907 --> 00:05:40.740 align:middle line:90% and they can settle? 00:05:40.740 --> 00:05:43.170 align:middle line:84% Fragments from quote-unquote different sponges, 00:05:43.170 --> 00:05:45.930 align:middle line:84% genetically different sponges, can settle and become 00:05:45.930 --> 00:05:47.800 align:middle line:90% part of the same sponge. 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:51.220 align:middle line:84% So see-- this-- even the way language is built 00:05:51.220 --> 00:05:53.680 align:middle line:90% makes me beg the question. 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:56.350 align:middle line:84% Different sponges, the same sponge. 00:05:56.350 --> 00:05:58.020 align:middle line:90% I don't know what a sponge is. 00:05:58.020 --> 00:06:01.270 align:middle line:90% 00:06:01.270 --> 00:06:03.770 align:middle line:84% And if I'm a sponge, I don't know what my-- 00:06:03.770 --> 00:06:06.160 align:middle line:90% I don't know what my self is. 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:09.550 align:middle line:84% I'm like, I'm having a huge identity crisis right now 00:06:09.550 --> 00:06:11.860 align:middle line:90% if I'm any one of these guys. 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:14.110 align:middle line:90% So just saying. 00:06:14.110 --> 00:06:15.848 align:middle line:84% Well, it's like, well, those are sponges. 00:06:15.848 --> 00:06:17.390 align:middle line:84% It's just like, come on, I'm a human. 00:06:17.390 --> 00:06:18.680 align:middle line:90% I don't like sponges. 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:21.670 align:middle line:90% OK, so I'm Robin Ikeda. 00:06:21.670 --> 00:06:23.090 align:middle line:84% You think you're looking at Robin 00:06:23.090 --> 00:06:25.340 align:middle line:90% Ikeda I think I'm Robin Ikeda. 00:06:25.340 --> 00:06:27.080 align:middle line:84% And you would say-- you could ask me. 00:06:27.080 --> 00:06:30.640 align:middle line:84% Well, what do you-- who do you think Robin Ikeda is? 00:06:30.640 --> 00:06:33.640 align:middle line:84% And it's just like, well, I don't 00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:35.990 align:middle line:90% mean to get personal, right. 00:06:35.990 --> 00:06:38.060 align:middle line:84% But there was a sperm and there was an egg, 00:06:38.060 --> 00:06:41.450 align:middle line:84% and they got together and that's me. 00:06:41.450 --> 00:06:43.990 align:middle line:90% The rest is history. 00:06:43.990 --> 00:06:52.630 align:middle line:84% Well, that cell, that fertilized embryo, that's only about-- 00:06:52.630 --> 00:06:57.890 align:middle line:84% cells that originated from that cell are only about 10% to 30%, 00:06:57.890 --> 00:07:02.490 align:middle line:90% 10% to 30% of what you see here. 00:07:02.490 --> 00:07:05.860 align:middle line:90% 00:07:05.860 --> 00:07:07.090 align:middle line:90% OK, but what about the DNA? 00:07:07.090 --> 00:07:10.750 align:middle line:84% There is DNA in those cells and that's what made you you. 00:07:10.750 --> 00:07:16.940 align:middle line:84% It's less than 1% of all the DNA in all of whatever-- 00:07:16.940 --> 00:07:18.800 align:middle line:84% wherever the boundary of this is. 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:22.550 align:middle line:84% And speaking of boundaries, the rest is microorganisms. 00:07:22.550 --> 00:07:26.770 align:middle line:84% The rest is fungi and bacteria and viruses. 00:07:26.770 --> 00:07:30.580 align:middle line:84% And so back to the art that's in seeing 00:07:30.580 --> 00:07:32.210 align:middle line:90% the unseen one of the artists. 00:07:32.210 --> 00:07:34.730 align:middle line:84% This is my gateway artwork right here. 00:07:34.730 --> 00:07:36.110 align:middle line:90% This was my way in. 00:07:36.110 --> 00:07:38.950 align:middle line:84% It's just like when I read about this art 00:07:38.950 --> 00:07:40.970 align:middle line:84% and I understood this art, it was just like, 00:07:40.970 --> 00:07:44.230 align:middle line:90% I get it, at least at one level. 00:07:44.230 --> 00:07:46.270 align:middle line:84% One of [INAUDIBLE] students last week 00:07:46.270 --> 00:07:49.170 align:middle line:84% schooled me on a whole other level of getting it. 00:07:49.170 --> 00:07:50.320 align:middle line:90% That was awesome. 00:07:50.320 --> 00:07:54.840 align:middle line:84% So anyway, David Goodsell paints what 00:07:54.840 --> 00:07:57.070 align:middle line:90% he calls molecular landscapes. 00:07:57.070 --> 00:07:59.950 align:middle line:84% And these are too small to see with even a microscope. 00:07:59.950 --> 00:08:02.410 align:middle line:84% We don't have the optical equipment to see these things. 00:08:02.410 --> 00:08:06.660 align:middle line:84% So he's making them based on scientific references that he 00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:11.170 align:middle line:84% saw-- that he cites; various scientific data, 00:08:11.170 --> 00:08:12.610 align:middle line:90% various chemical data. 00:08:12.610 --> 00:08:17.970 align:middle line:84% And so what we have here is droplets 00:08:17.970 --> 00:08:21.220 align:middle line:84% that this is a respiratory droplets. 00:08:21.220 --> 00:08:23.700 align:middle line:84% So these are the larger of a host 00:08:23.700 --> 00:08:30.000 align:middle line:84% of materials that my respiratory system is 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:32.820 align:middle line:90% projecting into this room. 00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:35.789 align:middle line:90% We have lots of filters going. 00:08:35.789 --> 00:08:37.780 align:middle line:84% But I see some of you wearing masks. 00:08:37.780 --> 00:08:40.480 align:middle line:84% And with as many people in the room, if I wasn't speaking, 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:42.739 align:middle line:84% I'd probably be wearing a mask too, right? 00:08:42.739 --> 00:08:46.583 align:middle line:90% 00:08:46.583 --> 00:08:49.890 align:middle line:84% But the science shows that the filtration is effective. 00:08:49.890 --> 00:08:52.330 align:middle line:90% So that-- there is that point. 00:08:52.330 --> 00:08:54.030 align:middle line:84% And I'm making that point because we've 00:08:54.030 --> 00:09:00.120 align:middle line:84% learned in the pandemic that we share 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:05.400 align:middle line:84% intimate details of our insides with each other 00:09:05.400 --> 00:09:06.810 align:middle line:90% without knowing it. 00:09:06.810 --> 00:09:10.260 align:middle line:84% And so the aerosols that I'm making 00:09:10.260 --> 00:09:13.300 align:middle line:84% are a little bit smaller than these droplets. 00:09:13.300 --> 00:09:15.090 align:middle line:84% But they have all the same stuff; 00:09:15.090 --> 00:09:18.330 align:middle line:84% surfactant, which keeps my lungs from collapsing, 00:09:18.330 --> 00:09:23.700 align:middle line:84% mucus and Brody's really getting all that and so 00:09:23.700 --> 00:09:25.470 align:middle line:90% is Mark right now-- 00:09:25.470 --> 00:09:29.940 align:middle line:84% and mucus, a whole bunch of immune cells. 00:09:29.940 --> 00:09:33.820 align:middle line:84% And then there's a COVID virus that he's put inside of it too. 00:09:33.820 --> 00:09:37.170 align:middle line:84% And so we've learned in spades in the last few years 00:09:37.170 --> 00:09:41.310 align:middle line:84% how interconnected we are and how interdependent we are 00:09:41.310 --> 00:09:45.580 align:middle line:84% and how much even where we breathe, where 00:09:45.580 --> 00:09:49.450 align:middle line:84% we sing and these exchanges have been going on since 00:09:49.450 --> 00:09:50.860 align:middle line:90% we took our first breath. 00:09:50.860 --> 00:09:53.710 align:middle line:84% They've been going on since before we were born. 00:09:53.710 --> 00:09:56.930 align:middle line:84% So we're going to explore these questions together. 00:09:56.930 --> 00:09:58.220 align:middle line:90% What is the self? 00:09:58.220 --> 00:09:59.600 align:middle line:90% What is an individual? 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:02.218 align:middle line:90% Why does it matter? 00:10:02.218 --> 00:10:06.560 align:middle line:84% And you've-- we've been introduced to the panelist. 00:10:06.560 --> 00:10:10.340 align:middle line:90% You're a participant, right? 00:10:10.340 --> 00:10:13.750 align:middle line:84% And so the first thing to do is on whatever 00:10:13.750 --> 00:10:15.490 align:middle line:84% you have to take notes on, maybe you're 00:10:15.490 --> 00:10:17.480 align:middle line:84% going to do it in the Note app on your phone, 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:19.550 align:middle line:84% or maybe you have pencil and paper. 00:10:19.550 --> 00:10:22.910 align:middle line:84% But what we'd like you to do is take a moment to consider; 00:10:22.910 --> 00:10:26.500 align:middle line:84% what do you think self is, what do you think an individual 00:10:26.500 --> 00:10:29.300 align:middle line:84% is because that's what each of these panelists is going to do. 00:10:29.300 --> 00:10:31.870 align:middle line:84% Each of these panelists is going to address these questions 00:10:31.870 --> 00:10:34.970 align:middle line:84% from their perspective as a philosopher, as a biologist, 00:10:34.970 --> 00:10:38.630 align:middle line:84% as an artist, as a filmmaker, as a sociologist. 00:10:38.630 --> 00:10:39.302 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:10:39.302 --> 00:10:43.930 align:middle line:90% And so you first, you first. 00:10:43.930 --> 00:10:48.620 align:middle line:84% Yeah, take a moment, and then after every presentation, 00:10:48.620 --> 00:10:51.260 align:middle line:84% you are going to be revisiting your notes. 00:10:51.260 --> 00:10:53.150 align:middle line:84% What do you think is an individual? 00:10:53.150 --> 00:10:54.530 align:middle line:90% Why does it matter? 00:10:54.530 --> 00:10:56.600 align:middle line:84% You're going to be revisiting your thoughts. 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.070 align:middle line:84% Maybe pair sharing, to chatting about it a little bit. 00:11:00.070 --> 00:11:01.070 align:middle line:90% You'll have to be quick. 00:11:01.070 --> 00:11:03.830 align:middle line:84% You'll get a minute or two and then on to the next one 00:11:03.830 --> 00:11:06.190 align:middle line:84% and then you'll be ready for the panel discussion 00:11:06.190 --> 00:11:08.080 align:middle line:84% because you'll have lots of questions. 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:10.735 align:middle line:90% I'm going to be quiet. 00:11:10.735 --> 00:11:11.990 align:middle line:90% Take a moment. 00:11:11.990 --> 00:11:14.480 align:middle line:84% And it's really important to write it down. 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:16.330 align:middle line:84% So if you don't have anything to write with, 00:11:16.330 --> 00:11:17.330 align:middle line:90% just get out your phone. 00:11:17.330 --> 00:11:19.893 align:middle line:84% Use the Note app or wherever you like 00:11:19.893 --> 00:11:21.060 align:middle line:90% to take notes on your phone. 00:11:21.060 --> 00:11:24.130 align:middle line:90% 00:11:24.130 --> 00:11:25.340 align:middle line:90% And you might chit chat. 00:11:25.340 --> 00:11:27.007 align:middle line:84% You're probably sitting next to somebody 00:11:27.007 --> 00:11:30.280 align:middle line:84% that you know if that'll get the juices flowing, just like-- 00:11:30.280 --> 00:11:31.160 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:11:31.160 --> 00:11:33.430 align:middle line:90% I never think about this. 00:11:33.430 --> 00:11:36.520 align:middle line:84% I was watching some of you guys and just channeling 00:11:36.520 --> 00:11:42.870 align:middle line:84% my former self, sitting there going, this is very confusing. 00:11:42.870 --> 00:11:44.520 align:middle line:84% I don't want to write something dumb. 00:11:44.520 --> 00:11:47.903 align:middle line:84% It's just like [LAUGHS] there's no such thing. 00:11:47.903 --> 00:11:49.195 align:middle line:90% We're all-- we're all confused. 00:11:49.195 --> 00:11:50.240 align:middle line:90% All dumb. 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:51.435 align:middle line:90% Yeah, right. 00:11:51.435 --> 00:11:53.640 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:11:53.640 --> 00:11:54.140 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:11:54.140 --> 00:11:56.900 align:middle line:90% 00:11:56.900 --> 00:11:58.200 align:middle line:90% Thank you for your work, Stan. 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:03.080 align:middle line:90% 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:03.930 align:middle line:90% It's time for Brody. 00:12:03.930 --> 00:12:04.430 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:12:04.430 --> 00:12:05.390 align:middle line:90% OK, cool. 00:12:05.390 --> 00:12:07.380 align:middle line:90% Hi, everyone. 00:12:07.380 --> 00:12:09.410 align:middle line:84% I'm an artist, so I had to think about this 00:12:09.410 --> 00:12:12.393 align:middle line:84% through the framework of art, through the lens of art. 00:12:12.393 --> 00:12:13.560 align:middle line:90% It was an interesting thing. 00:12:13.560 --> 00:12:14.850 align:middle line:84% So, first of all, thank you, Robin, 00:12:14.850 --> 00:12:16.370 align:middle line:84% for putting this together, for organizing 00:12:16.370 --> 00:12:17.900 align:middle line:84% this for the lovely conversations 00:12:17.900 --> 00:12:19.280 align:middle line:90% that this has made. 00:12:19.280 --> 00:12:20.990 align:middle line:90% Thank you, Rebecca, for making-- 00:12:20.990 --> 00:12:24.330 align:middle line:84% with the faculty and incredible exhibition. 00:12:24.330 --> 00:12:25.860 align:middle line:84% If you haven't seen it, go see it. 00:12:25.860 --> 00:12:27.450 align:middle line:84% It's really, really, really killer. 00:12:27.450 --> 00:12:30.260 align:middle line:90% It's really, really good. 00:12:30.260 --> 00:12:34.010 align:middle line:84% So the kind of proposition here is 00:12:34.010 --> 00:12:36.530 align:middle line:84% what is self, what is an individual 00:12:36.530 --> 00:12:42.270 align:middle line:84% and how do our respective fields understand those concepts. 00:12:42.270 --> 00:12:45.700 align:middle line:84% So I'm going to make a case through art. 00:12:45.700 --> 00:12:48.240 align:middle line:84% By the way, there's 100 ways that I 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:49.410 align:middle line:90% could have approached this. 00:12:49.410 --> 00:12:51.090 align:middle line:84% Art is this really amazing thing, 00:12:51.090 --> 00:12:55.062 align:middle line:84% where it's a container that can hold all different interests. 00:12:55.062 --> 00:12:57.270 align:middle line:84% And that's what I chose to pursue it because anything 00:12:57.270 --> 00:12:59.687 align:middle line:84% that I'm interested in, I can point it and put it in there 00:12:59.687 --> 00:13:01.810 align:middle line:84% and think about it through artistic terms. 00:13:01.810 --> 00:13:04.900 align:middle line:84% But I'm going to make a case that art-- that the individual, 00:13:04.900 --> 00:13:06.880 align:middle line:90% the self, is always relational. 00:13:06.880 --> 00:13:09.880 align:middle line:84% It's always in relationship to something else, 00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:11.590 align:middle line:90% to what it is not. 00:13:11.590 --> 00:13:14.500 align:middle line:84% So in that sense, it's always about drawing a boundary, 00:13:14.500 --> 00:13:15.850 align:middle line:90% drawing a border. 00:13:15.850 --> 00:13:18.930 align:middle line:84% And I want to talk about that through some ideas 00:13:18.930 --> 00:13:22.030 align:middle line:84% of design principles, some ideas of how we see. 00:13:22.030 --> 00:13:24.580 align:middle line:84% And I want to look at art historically a little bit. 00:13:24.580 --> 00:13:26.790 align:middle line:84% So this image right here is going 00:13:26.790 --> 00:13:30.990 align:middle line:84% to be the guiding principle for the next few slides 00:13:30.990 --> 00:13:32.220 align:middle line:90% that we look at. 00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:34.200 align:middle line:84% This was an image that was made over 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:38.800 align:middle line:84% 100 years ago in the Bauhaus, an experimental school in Germany 00:13:38.800 --> 00:13:40.730 align:middle line:84% that really has revolutionized things. 00:13:40.730 --> 00:13:42.670 align:middle line:84% I'm apologizing to my students because they're 00:13:42.670 --> 00:13:44.420 align:middle line:84% sick of hearing me talk about the Bauhaus. 00:13:44.420 --> 00:13:46.840 align:middle line:84% I'm sorry, guys, but still, it's how we think 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:48.890 align:middle line:90% and how we teach arts education. 00:13:48.890 --> 00:13:52.780 align:middle line:84% So this was an early experiment in photography, 00:13:52.780 --> 00:13:56.240 align:middle line:84% and they were just experimenting with double exposure. 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:58.150 align:middle line:84% So here, we have a figure right now 00:13:58.150 --> 00:14:00.680 align:middle line:84% that is dissolving into its background. 00:14:00.680 --> 00:14:05.350 align:middle line:84% And you can see very clearly how it works that there 00:14:05.350 --> 00:14:07.820 align:middle line:90% is a photograph of a chair. 00:14:07.820 --> 00:14:09.830 align:middle line:90% That camera did not move. 00:14:09.830 --> 00:14:11.650 align:middle line:84% It was exposed again while someone 00:14:11.650 --> 00:14:13.040 align:middle line:90% was sitting in that chair. 00:14:13.040 --> 00:14:15.230 align:middle line:84% When those two operations add up, 00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:18.010 align:middle line:84% we get this ghostly spectral figure, 00:14:18.010 --> 00:14:20.530 align:middle line:84% where the background and the subject 00:14:20.530 --> 00:14:22.310 align:middle line:90% are starting to become one. 00:14:22.310 --> 00:14:23.600 align:middle line:90% That's what I want to get at. 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.560 align:middle line:84% That's what I want to talk at-- talk about. 00:14:26.560 --> 00:14:29.260 align:middle line:84% But before we even get there, I want 00:14:29.260 --> 00:14:34.100 align:middle line:84% to just make it clear that making art is super weird. 00:14:34.100 --> 00:14:36.600 align:middle line:84% It's a strange thing that we do as humans 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:39.160 align:middle line:84% that we've been doing for a very long time, 00:14:39.160 --> 00:14:42.130 align:middle line:84% and intrinsic to the act of making art, 00:14:42.130 --> 00:14:44.530 align:middle line:84% is a definition of self and other. 00:14:44.530 --> 00:14:48.340 align:middle line:84% Any time that you make a work of art really make anything, 00:14:48.340 --> 00:14:50.880 align:middle line:84% you are taking something internal to yourself 00:14:50.880 --> 00:14:53.530 align:middle line:84% and you are externalizing it in the world. 00:14:53.530 --> 00:14:54.970 align:middle line:90% I had this idea. 00:14:54.970 --> 00:14:57.700 align:middle line:84% Here is an image that I have in my mind's eye, 00:14:57.700 --> 00:14:59.770 align:middle line:84% and now I am putting it out in the world. 00:14:59.770 --> 00:15:04.270 align:middle line:84% By doing that are separating yourself from the world. 00:15:04.270 --> 00:15:06.280 align:middle line:90% You are demarcating things. 00:15:06.280 --> 00:15:10.440 align:middle line:84% So here's an image of the Chauvet Caves in South of France 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:16.660 align:middle line:84% that was made 36,000 years ago, 36,000 years ago. 00:15:16.660 --> 00:15:20.950 align:middle line:84% And here are these artists, one or many artists, 00:15:20.950 --> 00:15:25.840 align:middle line:84% literally signing the walls, externalizing their bodies, 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:28.780 align:middle line:84% putting the handprint on the wall and leaving the mark. 00:15:28.780 --> 00:15:31.980 align:middle line:84% And just by doing that, they're making a separation 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:34.040 align:middle line:90% between self and other. 00:15:34.040 --> 00:15:38.960 align:middle line:84% So making art is a weird proposition, 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:41.450 align:middle line:84% and there's intrinsically something 00:15:41.450 --> 00:15:44.840 align:middle line:84% philosophical and profound to when we make a thing 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:46.830 align:middle line:90% and externalize it to ourselves. 00:15:46.830 --> 00:15:51.650 align:middle line:84% Which also brings up the weird idea of self-portraiture. 00:15:51.650 --> 00:15:55.320 align:middle line:84% In many ways, every work of art is a self-portrait. 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:58.320 align:middle line:84% Every work of art is a representation of self. 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.345 align:middle line:84% So I want to linger on a few ideas 00:16:00.345 --> 00:16:02.720 align:middle line:84% when we talk about this because there's a few things that 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:05.480 align:middle line:84% are just built into the way that we think about things that I 00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:08.030 align:middle line:90% think is pretty fascinating. 00:16:08.030 --> 00:16:10.625 align:middle line:84% One is simply the naming convention of art. 00:16:10.625 --> 00:16:12.000 align:middle line:84% Have you ever thought about this? 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:13.230 align:middle line:90% It's really strange, right. 00:16:13.230 --> 00:16:15.930 align:middle line:90% I would say, this is a van Gogh. 00:16:15.930 --> 00:16:19.470 align:middle line:84% That's not van Gogh, but it's a van Gogh. 00:16:19.470 --> 00:16:21.150 align:middle line:90% It's a Picasso. 00:16:21.150 --> 00:16:22.800 align:middle line:90% It's a Matisse. 00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:26.310 align:middle line:84% So even built into the way that we discuss art, 00:16:26.310 --> 00:16:29.310 align:middle line:84% there's this genetic relationship. 00:16:29.310 --> 00:16:33.900 align:middle line:84% It's as if it's the child of the person that made the thing, as 00:16:33.900 --> 00:16:36.270 align:middle line:84% if it really has this relationship, as if it's 00:16:36.270 --> 00:16:38.830 align:middle line:84% part of the individual artists themselves, 00:16:38.830 --> 00:16:40.950 align:middle line:84% but now separate from that artist. 00:16:40.950 --> 00:16:42.220 align:middle line:90% Wow, that's really weird. 00:16:42.220 --> 00:16:43.900 align:middle line:84% That makes me want to cry a little bit. 00:16:43.900 --> 00:16:46.620 align:middle line:84% It's a very, very confusing proposition. 00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:49.270 align:middle line:84% In the Renaissance, In the Italian Renaissance, 00:16:49.270 --> 00:16:50.830 align:middle line:90% they had this beautiful phrase. 00:16:50.830 --> 00:16:53.880 align:middle line:84% They said that art was the grandchild of God. 00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:55.690 align:middle line:90% Art is the grandchild of God. 00:16:55.690 --> 00:16:59.010 align:middle line:84% And it actually comes from some journals by Leonardo. 00:16:59.010 --> 00:17:01.060 align:middle line:84% Leonardo was writing about painting, 00:17:01.060 --> 00:17:05.980 align:middle line:84% and he said that nature is the child of God. 00:17:05.980 --> 00:17:09.670 align:middle line:84% Therefore, when we paint nature, we are painting its grandchild. 00:17:09.670 --> 00:17:12.540 align:middle line:84% And in that way, every art, every work of art 00:17:12.540 --> 00:17:14.349 align:middle line:90% is the grandchild of God. 00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:16.420 align:middle line:84% So I think there's some relationship there. 00:17:16.420 --> 00:17:18.630 align:middle line:84% When we think about the individual externalizing 00:17:18.630 --> 00:17:21.280 align:middle line:84% themselves, how a little bit of them is still there. 00:17:21.280 --> 00:17:28.470 align:middle line:84% When we talk about sharing our COVID germs and our aerosols 00:17:28.470 --> 00:17:32.230 align:middle line:84% or something, even in that, that rhymes with this weird condition 00:17:32.230 --> 00:17:35.440 align:middle line:90% of what it is to make art. 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.680 align:middle line:84% So OK, so that's just the groundwork that's 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:40.820 align:middle line:90% a very, very strange idea. 00:17:40.820 --> 00:17:43.840 align:middle line:84% But I want to step back one second 00:17:43.840 --> 00:17:50.380 align:middle line:84% and talk about how we teach art in the very introductory phases 00:17:50.380 --> 00:17:51.680 align:middle line:90% of teaching art. 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.810 align:middle line:84% We teach these principles of perception, 00:17:55.810 --> 00:17:58.047 align:middle line:84% and I think they are intrinsically philosophical, 00:17:58.047 --> 00:18:00.130 align:middle line:84% and I don't think we take enough time to step back 00:18:00.130 --> 00:18:04.050 align:middle line:84% and really ponder what the philosophical impacts of them 00:18:04.050 --> 00:18:04.550 align:middle line:90% are. 00:18:04.550 --> 00:18:07.820 align:middle line:84% Now, I realize there's an actual philosopher sitting next to me, 00:18:07.820 --> 00:18:10.870 align:middle line:84% so I better be careful about how I throw that word around. 00:18:10.870 --> 00:18:11.870 align:middle line:90% But I think it'll be OK. 00:18:11.870 --> 00:18:12.980 align:middle line:90% I'll get away with it. 00:18:12.980 --> 00:18:14.770 align:middle line:90% I won't lose my job yet. 00:18:14.770 --> 00:18:17.140 align:middle line:90% We'll wait for that. 00:18:17.140 --> 00:18:20.740 align:middle line:84% So, OK, so we teach-- we teach these ideas through the science 00:18:20.740 --> 00:18:21.460 align:middle line:90% of perception. 00:18:21.460 --> 00:18:22.960 align:middle line:84% And a lot of it comes from something 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:24.710 align:middle line:90% called gestalt psychology. 00:18:24.710 --> 00:18:28.880 align:middle line:84% Gestalt psychology was an early 20th century formulation 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:32.520 align:middle line:84% of psychological principles that are all based on perception, 00:18:32.520 --> 00:18:35.550 align:middle line:84% how we see the world, how we perceive the world, 00:18:35.550 --> 00:18:39.590 align:middle line:84% how our senses work, and how that shapes the reality that we 00:18:39.590 --> 00:18:40.550 align:middle line:90% live in. 00:18:40.550 --> 00:18:42.950 align:middle line:84% One of the principles of gestalt psychology 00:18:42.950 --> 00:18:45.390 align:middle line:84% is called figure ground relationship. 00:18:45.390 --> 00:18:47.540 align:middle line:84% And when we teach art early on, we 00:18:47.540 --> 00:18:49.410 align:middle line:84% were all about figure ground relationship. 00:18:49.410 --> 00:18:51.260 align:middle line:84% We're teaching it as something to utilize 00:18:51.260 --> 00:18:53.070 align:middle line:90% to make strong designs. 00:18:53.070 --> 00:18:55.542 align:middle line:84% So right now, I'm not going to play around right now. 00:18:55.542 --> 00:18:57.500 align:middle line:84% I think that we should think that figure ground 00:18:57.500 --> 00:19:01.110 align:middle line:84% relationship is a metaphor for self and other. 00:19:01.110 --> 00:19:04.610 align:middle line:84% The figure is the self, the ground is the other. 00:19:04.610 --> 00:19:09.620 align:middle line:84% And what the gestalt principle figure ground relationship says 00:19:09.620 --> 00:19:12.710 align:middle line:84% is that our brains have a very difficult time 00:19:12.710 --> 00:19:15.710 align:middle line:84% of holding both the background and the foreground 00:19:15.710 --> 00:19:17.100 align:middle line:90% together at once. 00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:20.300 align:middle line:84% So if you look at this image, we've all seen this image. 00:19:20.300 --> 00:19:24.030 align:middle line:84% But when you look at this image, something very strange happens. 00:19:24.030 --> 00:19:25.640 align:middle line:90% Your brain should be flipping. 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:29.480 align:middle line:84% So at one moment we can see the white as a vase. 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:31.920 align:middle line:84% We can see it as some kind of form. 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:34.520 align:middle line:84% And then the black becomes the background, 00:19:34.520 --> 00:19:37.062 align:middle line:84% and then instantaneously you look at the black, 00:19:37.062 --> 00:19:38.970 align:middle line:84% the black becomes the foreground, 00:19:38.970 --> 00:19:40.820 align:middle line:84% the black becomes the figure, the white 00:19:40.820 --> 00:19:42.330 align:middle line:90% becomes the background. 00:19:42.330 --> 00:19:46.890 align:middle line:84% And if you just feel yourself looking at these, 00:19:46.890 --> 00:19:49.520 align:middle line:84% I think you'll feel that it's almost impossible 00:19:49.520 --> 00:19:54.410 align:middle line:84% to look at both the figure and the ground at the same time. 00:19:54.410 --> 00:19:57.540 align:middle line:90% Wow, that's very strange to me. 00:19:57.540 --> 00:20:01.920 align:middle line:84% And I think that has all sorts of implications. 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:04.290 align:middle line:84% It has philosophical implications, 00:20:04.290 --> 00:20:05.840 align:middle line:84% spiritual implications, but it also 00:20:05.840 --> 00:20:07.470 align:middle line:90% has environmental implications. 00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:09.470 align:middle line:84% It has all sorts of implications that this 00:20:09.470 --> 00:20:14.270 align:middle line:84% is the framework in which we have developed as people. 00:20:14.270 --> 00:20:17.190 align:middle line:90% Oh, there's a lot of problems. 00:20:17.190 --> 00:20:18.770 align:middle line:90% There's a lot of problems. 00:20:18.770 --> 00:20:19.350 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:20:19.350 --> 00:20:22.280 align:middle line:90% Excellent timing. 00:20:22.280 --> 00:20:25.160 align:middle line:84% So figure ground relationship is like the bread and butter 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:26.620 align:middle line:90% of graphic design. 00:20:26.620 --> 00:20:28.790 align:middle line:84% It's like when people design logos, 00:20:28.790 --> 00:20:31.310 align:middle line:84% they're playing around with figure ground relationship. 00:20:31.310 --> 00:20:34.460 align:middle line:84% And it's the way that they communicate meaning. 00:20:34.460 --> 00:20:36.640 align:middle line:84% So maybe we've all seen this, but the FedEx logo 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:40.060 align:middle line:84% is the FedEx logo until you look at the white arrow between the E 00:20:40.060 --> 00:20:41.870 align:middle line:90% and the X which comes forward. 00:20:41.870 --> 00:20:43.550 align:middle line:84% So here are designers being clever. 00:20:43.550 --> 00:20:44.150 align:middle line:90% They're being clever. 00:20:44.150 --> 00:20:46.525 align:middle line:84% They're not being philosophical but they're being clever. 00:20:46.525 --> 00:20:48.860 align:middle line:84% And they're using the negative space, the background, 00:20:48.860 --> 00:20:52.480 align:middle line:84% the figure ground relationship as a way of conveying meaning. 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.610 align:middle line:84% When we teach painting, we teach artists to control the figure 00:20:57.610 --> 00:20:59.320 align:middle line:90% ground relationship. 00:20:59.320 --> 00:21:01.815 align:middle line:84% And I want to pick that apart a little 00:21:01.815 --> 00:21:03.190 align:middle line:84% bit, too, because I think there's 00:21:03.190 --> 00:21:05.480 align:middle line:90% some implications in that. 00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:09.070 align:middle line:84% So this is a painting by N. C. Wyeth, 00:21:09.070 --> 00:21:11.770 align:middle line:90% an 18th century Illustrator. 00:21:11.770 --> 00:21:14.200 align:middle line:84% This is from the books, the Treasure Island 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:16.270 align:middle line:90% books that are about Pirates. 00:21:16.270 --> 00:21:17.830 align:middle line:84% But if we look at this image, it has 00:21:17.830 --> 00:21:20.410 align:middle line:84% a very-- what I'm going to say-- clear figure ground 00:21:20.410 --> 00:21:21.570 align:middle line:90% relationship. 00:21:21.570 --> 00:21:25.210 align:middle line:84% You can clearly see the figure in relationship to the ground. 00:21:25.210 --> 00:21:26.720 align:middle line:90% Squint at the image. 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:29.860 align:middle line:84% If we all squint at the image, what you should see 00:21:29.860 --> 00:21:33.460 align:middle line:84% is the values break down and you just 00:21:33.460 --> 00:21:37.190 align:middle line:84% see a black silhouette of the figure and the white background. 00:21:37.190 --> 00:21:39.070 align:middle line:84% It's a trick that we artists use. 00:21:39.070 --> 00:21:41.500 align:middle line:84% We squint at things in order to break them down 00:21:41.500 --> 00:21:43.070 align:middle line:90% to their essential components. 00:21:43.070 --> 00:21:45.080 align:middle line:84% So when I squint, I lose all information, 00:21:45.080 --> 00:21:47.630 align:middle line:84% and I only see the background and I only see the figure. 00:21:47.630 --> 00:21:51.020 align:middle line:84% And there is no confusing those two things. 00:21:51.020 --> 00:21:54.920 align:middle line:84% So here's N. C. Wyeth, painting pictures of Pirates. 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:57.520 align:middle line:84% And what he's painting is a picture 00:21:57.520 --> 00:22:01.720 align:middle line:84% of a human being from a very colonial perspective that 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:03.830 align:middle line:90% has dominion over the earth. 00:22:03.830 --> 00:22:06.200 align:middle line:84% This is a person that is not part of the land, 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:09.800 align:middle line:84% but is separate from the land that is controlling the land. 00:22:09.800 --> 00:22:12.910 align:middle line:84% So even baked into this very simple principle 00:22:12.910 --> 00:22:16.630 align:middle line:84% of how we paint clear figures of how we paint clear figure ground 00:22:16.630 --> 00:22:19.640 align:middle line:84% relationships are-- is a political dimension. 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:22.710 align:middle line:84% And we're taught that this is proper painting. 00:22:22.710 --> 00:22:23.593 align:middle line:90% This is what you do. 00:22:23.593 --> 00:22:24.510 align:middle line:90% This is how you paint. 00:22:24.510 --> 00:22:27.200 align:middle line:84% Well, I think it's worth stepping back and asking 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.020 align:middle line:90% what happens if we do it wrong. 00:22:30.020 --> 00:22:32.550 align:middle line:84% What happens if we make an ambiguous figure? 00:22:32.550 --> 00:22:37.290 align:middle line:84% This is a painting by a guy named Nathan Oliveira, 00:22:37.290 --> 00:22:40.580 align:middle line:84% who's a Bay Area figurative artist making work in the 40s 00:22:40.580 --> 00:22:45.470 align:middle line:84% and 50s, and he made all sorts of paintings that have very 00:22:45.470 --> 00:22:48.300 align:middle line:84% ambiguous figure ground relationships, 00:22:48.300 --> 00:22:53.390 align:middle line:84% where the figure is just emerging from the atmosphere 00:22:53.390 --> 00:22:55.130 align:middle line:90% that it exists in. 00:22:55.130 --> 00:22:58.100 align:middle line:84% Here, our brains have an easier time 00:22:58.100 --> 00:23:02.600 align:middle line:84% taking in the background and the foreground at the same time. 00:23:02.600 --> 00:23:06.780 align:middle line:84% So if this image is about the separation from the environment, 00:23:06.780 --> 00:23:08.880 align:middle line:84% about domination of the environment, 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:13.070 align:middle line:84% then it makes me ask, what is this image about? 00:23:13.070 --> 00:23:15.260 align:middle line:90% What is this image about? 00:23:15.260 --> 00:23:18.860 align:middle line:90% Very interesting ideas to me. 00:23:18.860 --> 00:23:19.620 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:23:19.620 --> 00:23:22.880 align:middle line:84% We know why we see figure ground relationship. 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:25.290 align:middle line:90% We know why it is necessary. 00:23:25.290 --> 00:23:27.110 align:middle line:84% It is necessary because if we do not 00:23:27.110 --> 00:23:29.030 align:middle line:84% see figure ground relationship, that thing 00:23:29.030 --> 00:23:30.630 align:middle line:90% is going to eat you, right? 00:23:30.630 --> 00:23:33.870 align:middle line:84% We need to be able to see just as a survival tactic, 00:23:33.870 --> 00:23:35.840 align:middle line:84% the evolutionary pressures have forced 00:23:35.840 --> 00:23:39.330 align:middle line:84% us to be able to separate the lion from the Savannah. 00:23:39.330 --> 00:23:42.120 align:middle line:84% We need to be able to-- tiger, whatever the hell that thing is. 00:23:42.120 --> 00:23:45.170 align:middle line:84% We need to be able to see that thing in relationship 00:23:45.170 --> 00:23:48.380 align:middle line:84% to its environment so that we don't get eaten. 00:23:48.380 --> 00:23:53.060 align:middle line:84% And this is exactly why a tiger has its stripes. 00:23:53.060 --> 00:23:56.120 align:middle line:84% Now, all of a sudden, there's a philosophical dimension 00:23:56.120 --> 00:24:00.320 align:middle line:84% to the simple, common idea of camouflage. 00:24:00.320 --> 00:24:01.880 align:middle line:90% And our brains are so good. 00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:03.780 align:middle line:84% We don't have any problem picking that apart. 00:24:03.780 --> 00:24:05.990 align:middle line:84% We've developed a way where we can still 00:24:05.990 --> 00:24:09.690 align:middle line:84% see the outlines of that figure in relationship to the ground. 00:24:09.690 --> 00:24:12.860 align:middle line:84% But this is why a tiger has its stripes. 00:24:12.860 --> 00:24:15.470 align:middle line:84% And I want to pause real quick, because here's 00:24:15.470 --> 00:24:18.260 align:middle line:84% one of the ways in which camouflage is profound. 00:24:18.260 --> 00:24:22.440 align:middle line:84% It talks to the ways in which we are co-created 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.440 align:middle line:84% and the ways in which we are creating each other at any given 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:26.550 align:middle line:90% moment. 00:24:26.550 --> 00:24:28.980 align:middle line:84% So the tiger has its stripes because someone 00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:30.400 align:middle line:90% is looking at it. 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:32.250 align:middle line:84% We see figure ground relationship 00:24:32.250 --> 00:24:34.480 align:middle line:84% because someone is trying to eat us. 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.790 align:middle line:84% So it's always in relationship to something. 00:24:38.790 --> 00:24:42.960 align:middle line:84% I quite thinking about the camouflage that zebras have, 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:46.210 align:middle line:84% because here it changes the game a little bit. 00:24:46.210 --> 00:24:48.070 align:middle line:84% The zebra doesn't have its stripes 00:24:48.070 --> 00:24:50.530 align:middle line:84% so it can separate itself from its environment. 00:24:50.530 --> 00:24:53.020 align:middle line:84% It has its stripes so it can blend in. 00:24:53.020 --> 00:24:55.320 align:middle line:84% It can dissolve the figure ground relationship 00:24:55.320 --> 00:24:58.608 align:middle line:84% with the other individuals in its group, which, by the way, 00:24:58.608 --> 00:25:00.900 align:middle line:84% I don't know if you've ever seen dazzle camouflage that 00:25:00.900 --> 00:25:02.320 align:middle line:90% was used in World War II. 00:25:02.320 --> 00:25:04.110 align:middle line:84% They used to paint these Navy vessels 00:25:04.110 --> 00:25:06.670 align:middle line:84% with things that looked just like zebra stripes, 00:25:06.670 --> 00:25:10.530 align:middle line:84% in an effort to dissolve the figure ground relationship. 00:25:10.530 --> 00:25:11.980 align:middle line:90% So here it is. 00:25:11.980 --> 00:25:13.630 align:middle line:90% We are all co-created. 00:25:13.630 --> 00:25:16.390 align:middle line:84% We are all co-creating ourselves at every moment. 00:25:16.390 --> 00:25:19.130 align:middle line:84% We are not individuals exist alone. 00:25:19.130 --> 00:25:22.990 align:middle line:84% We are individuals that exist in relationship to something else. 00:25:22.990 --> 00:25:24.620 align:middle line:90% I had to show this painting. 00:25:24.620 --> 00:25:26.720 align:middle line:84% This is the coolest painting ever. 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:28.810 align:middle line:84% This is by mid-century Illustrator 00:25:28.810 --> 00:25:30.790 align:middle line:90% named Charley Harper. 00:25:30.790 --> 00:25:32.680 align:middle line:84% And Charley Harper clearly understands 00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:34.682 align:middle line:84% what's going on with the zebra stripes. 00:25:34.682 --> 00:25:37.390 align:middle line:84% But also, I needed to share this painting because it has the best 00:25:37.390 --> 00:25:38.150 align:middle line:90% title ever. 00:25:38.150 --> 00:25:40.520 align:middle line:84% This painting is called Serengeti spaghetti. 00:25:40.520 --> 00:25:41.210 align:middle line:90% That's it. 00:25:41.210 --> 00:25:42.250 align:middle line:84% That's the whole reason I'm up here 00:25:42.250 --> 00:25:43.850 align:middle line:84% is just to say Serengeti spaghetti, 00:25:43.850 --> 00:25:47.050 align:middle line:84% because that's a really, really good title. 00:25:47.050 --> 00:25:49.018 align:middle line:90% Let's look at a few artists. 00:25:49.018 --> 00:25:50.560 align:middle line:84% We're going to look at three artists. 00:25:50.560 --> 00:25:54.190 align:middle line:84% So let's look at a few artists that make meaning of the figure 00:25:54.190 --> 00:25:56.830 align:middle line:84% ground relationship that understand how figure ground 00:25:56.830 --> 00:26:01.360 align:middle line:84% relationship works, and then make some impactful statement 00:26:01.360 --> 00:26:02.510 align:middle line:90% based on that. 00:26:02.510 --> 00:26:04.930 align:middle line:84% So this is a series of photographs 00:26:04.930 --> 00:26:08.350 align:middle line:84% by a woman named Carrie Mae Weems, brilliant photographer 00:26:08.350 --> 00:26:10.150 align:middle line:90% that's still working today. 00:26:10.150 --> 00:26:13.480 align:middle line:84% Carrie Mae Weems made these photographs 00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:17.000 align:middle line:84% that have very pronounced figure ground relationships. 00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:20.250 align:middle line:84% She is a Black woman dressed in all black, 00:26:20.250 --> 00:26:24.120 align:middle line:84% taking a photograph of herself against a white background. 00:26:24.120 --> 00:26:27.500 align:middle line:84% So it might be the white background of suburbia 00:26:27.500 --> 00:26:30.680 align:middle line:84% or the white background of Rome, the seed 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.100 align:middle line:90% of Western civilization. 00:26:34.100 --> 00:26:37.280 align:middle line:84% It might be the white background of the art institutions 00:26:37.280 --> 00:26:40.910 align:middle line:84% that tell us what has intrinsic value and what does not. 00:26:40.910 --> 00:26:44.550 align:middle line:84% So she is saying, here I am a Black woman, 00:26:44.550 --> 00:26:46.260 align:middle line:90% a figure to the ground. 00:26:46.260 --> 00:26:49.980 align:middle line:84% What does my black body have to do with this white ground? 00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:52.820 align:middle line:84% I stand in contrast and in defiance 00:26:52.820 --> 00:26:55.730 align:middle line:84% to the figure ground relationship. 00:26:55.730 --> 00:26:57.930 align:middle line:90% Powerful, amazing. 00:26:57.930 --> 00:27:00.060 align:middle line:84% We can utilize these things to make meaning, 00:27:00.060 --> 00:27:02.360 align:middle line:84% and we are taught culturally to decipher meaning 00:27:02.360 --> 00:27:05.240 align:middle line:90% from these things as well. 00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:07.820 align:middle line:84% I think this image really sums it up, right. 00:27:07.820 --> 00:27:10.850 align:middle line:84% There's nothing more powerful than this image. 00:27:10.850 --> 00:27:12.450 align:middle line:90% So here she is. 00:27:12.450 --> 00:27:15.400 align:middle line:84% In contrast to the institutions of power. 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.840 align:middle line:84% Here she is, a Black body, surrendering herself 00:27:18.840 --> 00:27:21.510 align:middle line:84% to the white noise that surrounds her. 00:27:21.510 --> 00:27:24.900 align:middle line:84% Now studied, viewers of art history 00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.580 align:middle line:84% will understand that there's another dimension to this image. 00:27:27.580 --> 00:27:30.900 align:middle line:84% That embedded in this image is this image, 00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:36.180 align:middle line:84% "Wanderer above Sea and Fog" by a German romanticist painter 00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:38.230 align:middle line:90% named Caspar David Friedrich. 00:27:38.230 --> 00:27:42.130 align:middle line:84% And this image is, by the way, embedded in culture so deeply. 00:27:42.130 --> 00:27:45.370 align:middle line:84% We see this in 1,000 video games and 1,000 movies. 00:27:45.370 --> 00:27:48.310 align:middle line:84% We have taught how to see the world through this image, 00:27:48.310 --> 00:27:49.980 align:middle line:84% and this image was used to discuss 00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:54.430 align:middle line:84% ideas of the sublime of the overpowering power of nature. 00:27:54.430 --> 00:27:57.430 align:middle line:84% So it's always about the figure in relationship to nature. 00:27:57.430 --> 00:28:01.530 align:middle line:84% So anyway, I think you can see very clearly how this image has 00:28:01.530 --> 00:28:03.570 align:middle line:90% this image embedded into it. 00:28:03.570 --> 00:28:06.090 align:middle line:84% So an artist that's utilizing figure ground relationship 00:28:06.090 --> 00:28:07.900 align:middle line:90% and drawing sharp contrasts. 00:28:07.900 --> 00:28:11.430 align:middle line:84% We also have an artist that's doing the opposite. 00:28:11.430 --> 00:28:14.490 align:middle line:84% This is a room that you can walk into. 00:28:14.490 --> 00:28:18.900 align:middle line:84% This is an installation by a guy named James Turrell, who's 00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:20.710 align:middle line:90% a light and space artist. 00:28:20.710 --> 00:28:23.730 align:middle line:84% When you walk into this room, you 00:28:23.730 --> 00:28:26.470 align:middle line:84% lose all sense figure and ground. 00:28:26.470 --> 00:28:29.950 align:middle line:84% All you are is this floating perception. 00:28:29.950 --> 00:28:31.930 align:middle line:90% The corners have been softened. 00:28:31.930 --> 00:28:36.910 align:middle line:84% You are either in a room that's 5 by 5 feet or 500 by 500 feet. 00:28:36.910 --> 00:28:40.360 align:middle line:84% All sense of relationality has been lost. 00:28:40.360 --> 00:28:43.630 align:middle line:84% Of course, until someone else walks into the room. 00:28:43.630 --> 00:28:48.930 align:middle line:84% And then again, we have a figure ground relationship. 00:28:48.930 --> 00:28:52.330 align:middle line:84% It is such an interesting experience to be in these rooms. 00:28:52.330 --> 00:28:55.200 align:middle line:84% Your body becomes alien to itself. 00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:56.760 align:middle line:84% When you look at your hands, it's 00:28:56.760 --> 00:28:58.560 align:middle line:84% as if you were looking out and seeing 00:28:58.560 --> 00:29:00.280 align:middle line:90% your hands from another body. 00:29:00.280 --> 00:29:03.250 align:middle line:90% Because we have no grounding. 00:29:03.250 --> 00:29:05.800 align:middle line:90% There are no hard edges here. 00:29:05.800 --> 00:29:08.280 align:middle line:84% So here's an artist that's doing the opposite of Carrie Mae 00:29:08.280 --> 00:29:11.360 align:middle line:84% Weems that's making philosophical impact 00:29:11.360 --> 00:29:14.450 align:middle line:84% by dissolving the figure ground relationship, 00:29:14.450 --> 00:29:16.910 align:middle line:84% the background becomes foreground, 00:29:16.910 --> 00:29:19.360 align:middle line:84% the foreground becomes background. 00:29:19.360 --> 00:29:21.340 align:middle line:90% Beautiful. 00:29:21.340 --> 00:29:23.830 align:middle line:90% I want to end on this artist. 00:29:23.830 --> 00:29:26.470 align:middle line:84% This may be my favorite artist of all time. 00:29:26.470 --> 00:29:31.180 align:middle line:84% This is an artwork by a guy named Felix Gonzalez-Torres. 00:29:31.180 --> 00:29:34.207 align:middle line:84% Simply a pile of candy in the room, 00:29:34.207 --> 00:29:36.040 align:middle line:84% and I thought it would be interesting to end 00:29:36.040 --> 00:29:38.950 align:middle line:84% on this artist in the way that this conversation was framed 00:29:38.950 --> 00:29:42.730 align:middle line:84% and actually started was through Robin's observation 00:29:42.730 --> 00:29:46.990 align:middle line:84% about the pandemic, about how the pandemic highlighted how 00:29:46.990 --> 00:29:49.210 align:middle line:90% we are all in this together. 00:29:49.210 --> 00:29:51.800 align:middle line:84% This is art that was made during another pandemic, 00:29:51.800 --> 00:29:54.850 align:middle line:84% another epidemic, the AIDS crisis. 00:29:54.850 --> 00:29:58.340 align:middle line:84% Felix Gonzalez-Torres is a Cuban-American artist-- sorry, 00:29:58.340 --> 00:30:02.980 align:middle line:84% was a Cuban-American artist, a gay man, 00:30:02.980 --> 00:30:06.260 align:middle line:84% had a partner before marriage was legal, 00:30:06.260 --> 00:30:09.990 align:middle line:84% and he was this brilliant, minimalist, conceptual artist, 00:30:09.990 --> 00:30:12.590 align:middle line:84% and he got known for these candy piles. 00:30:12.590 --> 00:30:14.375 align:middle line:84% Candy piles just exist in the museum. 00:30:14.375 --> 00:30:16.250 align:middle line:84% You walk into the museum and you are actually 00:30:16.250 --> 00:30:18.690 align:middle line:84% encouraged to take one of these pieces of candy. 00:30:18.690 --> 00:30:21.510 align:middle line:84% You are encouraged to take a candy, eat the candy, 00:30:21.510 --> 00:30:24.500 align:middle line:84% go about your day and enjoy the rest of the time. 00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:27.470 align:middle line:84% Then you read the title of these and you 00:30:27.470 --> 00:30:30.380 align:middle line:84% see that they're actually named after a person. 00:30:30.380 --> 00:30:34.070 align:middle line:84% They're all titled untitled parentheses, Ross. 00:30:34.070 --> 00:30:40.010 align:middle line:84% Ross was Felix Gonzalez-Torres' partner, who at this time 00:30:40.010 --> 00:30:42.650 align:middle line:90% was battling AIDS. 00:30:42.650 --> 00:30:46.560 align:middle line:84% So if we think about this, here is a minimalist sculpture, 00:30:46.560 --> 00:30:49.910 align:middle line:84% a body in the room that is dissolving 00:30:49.910 --> 00:30:51.980 align:middle line:90% by people taking part in it. 00:30:51.980 --> 00:30:54.350 align:middle line:84% Each candy pile is actually measured out 00:30:54.350 --> 00:30:57.150 align:middle line:84% to the weight, the ideal weight of Ross. 00:30:57.150 --> 00:31:01.010 align:middle line:84% So it would be 150 pounds of candy piled into the corner. 00:31:01.010 --> 00:31:04.860 align:middle line:84% Every day that body would dissolve slowly 00:31:04.860 --> 00:31:07.680 align:middle line:84% and the museum would replenish it. 00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.640 align:middle line:84% And it brings up these really powerful ideas 00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:13.540 align:middle line:90% about self and other. 00:31:13.540 --> 00:31:17.850 align:middle line:84% I imagine being in New York at this time 00:31:17.850 --> 00:31:20.640 align:middle line:84% and seeing this and taking the subway home 00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:23.080 align:middle line:84% and looking at the people around me and thinking, 00:31:23.080 --> 00:31:25.050 align:middle line:90% did you have some of that candy? 00:31:25.050 --> 00:31:26.940 align:middle line:90% Did you have some of that candy? 00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:29.860 align:middle line:90% Where is that sugar located now? 00:31:29.860 --> 00:31:33.060 align:middle line:84% How is it distributed across a population? 00:31:33.060 --> 00:31:36.180 align:middle line:84% It is such a ripe, powerful metaphor, 00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:40.480 align:middle line:84% where by taking a pleasurable act, enjoying the candy, 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:44.070 align:middle line:84% we are participating in the dissolving of this figure. 00:31:44.070 --> 00:31:46.020 align:middle line:84% It is one of the most powerful artworks 00:31:46.020 --> 00:31:48.300 align:middle line:90% that I can possibly imagine. 00:31:48.300 --> 00:31:51.510 align:middle line:84% So here is Felix Gonzalez-Torres inviting 00:31:51.510 --> 00:31:54.630 align:middle line:84% you to take a little bit of candy, 00:31:54.630 --> 00:31:58.830 align:middle line:84% enjoy that, but also ponder what the edges of your own body are 00:31:58.830 --> 00:32:01.710 align:middle line:84% and how it dissolves and how it ends. 00:32:01.710 --> 00:32:02.260 align:middle line:90% That's it. 00:32:02.260 --> 00:32:03.432 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:32:03.432 --> 00:32:05.360 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:32:05.360 --> 00:32:07.290 align:middle line:90% 00:32:07.290 --> 00:32:08.850 align:middle line:90% Take a minute. 00:32:08.850 --> 00:32:19.150 align:middle line:84% Literally, a minute and think, pause, revise, reflect, note. 00:32:19.150 --> 00:32:24.180 align:middle line:84% And if you have any questions to ask Brody or anything, even 00:32:24.180 --> 00:32:26.830 align:middle line:84% if it isn't anything you're curious about, 00:32:26.830 --> 00:32:29.260 align:middle line:84% even if it isn't as coherent as a question, 00:32:29.260 --> 00:32:34.350 align:middle line:84% go ahead and make note of that and chat and stretch 00:32:34.350 --> 00:32:35.270 align:middle line:90% if you need to also. 00:32:35.270 --> 00:32:39.870 align:middle line:90% 00:32:39.870 --> 00:32:40.660 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:32:40.660 --> 00:32:42.120 align:middle line:90% Next up. 00:32:42.120 --> 00:32:42.963 align:middle line:90% Got the mic? 00:32:42.963 --> 00:32:43.630 align:middle line:90% Got the clicker? 00:32:43.630 --> 00:32:44.640 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.070 align:middle line:84% I don't think I've ever given a lecture sitting down 00:32:47.070 --> 00:32:49.740 align:middle line:90% so I'm not going to start now. 00:32:49.740 --> 00:32:50.830 align:middle line:90% I was wondering. 00:32:50.830 --> 00:32:53.970 align:middle line:90% 00:32:53.970 --> 00:32:58.590 align:middle line:84% So I see the world as an ant colony. 00:32:58.590 --> 00:33:02.170 align:middle line:84% That's a professional liability that I carry. 00:33:02.170 --> 00:33:05.020 align:middle line:84% And one of the descriptions of these ant colonies 00:33:05.020 --> 00:33:07.310 align:middle line:90% are superorganisms. 00:33:07.310 --> 00:33:11.680 align:middle line:84% So I'd like you to take a moment and think about what that means 00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:17.560 align:middle line:84% and think about what connotations that 00:33:17.560 --> 00:33:20.320 align:middle line:90% has for humanity in the world. 00:33:20.320 --> 00:33:27.190 align:middle line:84% So the starting point for this little exercise 00:33:27.190 --> 00:33:30.550 align:middle line:84% is a leafcutter ant queen, and I chose her 00:33:30.550 --> 00:33:35.720 align:middle line:84% because of all the components of the colony she represents, 00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:38.420 align:middle line:84% as best I can tell, the starting point. 00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:42.490 align:middle line:84% And so that's what she looks like with her wings on. 00:33:42.490 --> 00:33:48.610 align:middle line:84% She carries within her the sperm that's 00:33:48.610 --> 00:33:54.880 align:middle line:84% been donated by 3 to 5 males and about 2 to three million sperm 00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.110 align:middle line:90% from those males. 00:33:57.110 --> 00:33:59.590 align:middle line:84% And she has an estimated lifespan 00:33:59.590 --> 00:34:05.360 align:middle line:84% of about 10 to 15 years, depending upon who you talk to. 00:34:05.360 --> 00:34:10.500 align:middle line:84% And what you see on the left-hand margin, 00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:14.510 align:middle line:84% there is a representation about the leafcutter queen's 00:34:14.510 --> 00:34:16.610 align:middle line:90% activities. 00:34:16.610 --> 00:34:22.340 align:middle line:84% Once she gets started, she first of all drops her wings 00:34:22.340 --> 00:34:26.840 align:middle line:84% and secondly constructs a tunnel down into this chamber 00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:30.650 align:middle line:84% at the bottom and the white mass that you 00:34:30.650 --> 00:34:33.530 align:middle line:84% see next to the figure that's representing 00:34:33.530 --> 00:34:38.600 align:middle line:84% the dilated queen is a fungal mass that she carried 00:34:38.600 --> 00:34:41.960 align:middle line:84% with her in her mouthparts that is starting 00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:44.780 align:middle line:90% to grow as she tends them. 00:34:44.780 --> 00:34:47.340 align:middle line:84% And this is about it for the queen, 00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:51.260 align:middle line:84% this is about as autonomous as the queen ever gets, 00:34:51.260 --> 00:34:56.690 align:middle line:84% and the gradual life cycle of the entire colony 00:34:56.690 --> 00:35:00.660 align:middle line:84% represents the autonomy that's given up by the queen. 00:35:00.660 --> 00:35:04.530 align:middle line:84% At this point in time, the queen has the capability 00:35:04.530 --> 00:35:11.830 align:middle line:84% of managing the fungal food pile that she'll be eating off of. 00:35:11.830 --> 00:35:14.010 align:middle line:84% And at this point in time, she also 00:35:14.010 --> 00:35:17.650 align:middle line:84% has the capacity to lay eggs, take care of those eggs, 00:35:17.650 --> 00:35:21.160 align:middle line:84% and take care of the workers that will come from those eggs. 00:35:21.160 --> 00:35:25.360 align:middle line:84% So she is what I would recognize as an individual, 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.840 align:middle line:84% as something or somebody that's autonomous. 00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:33.570 align:middle line:84% The eggs that are laid by the queen 00:35:33.570 --> 00:35:38.400 align:middle line:84% go through a typical insect progression from egg 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:43.590 align:middle line:84% to larvae, to pupa and adult. And so most insects 00:35:43.590 --> 00:35:46.060 align:middle line:90% go through that metamorphosis. 00:35:46.060 --> 00:35:48.700 align:middle line:84% And that's true of the ants as well. 00:35:48.700 --> 00:35:51.130 align:middle line:84% At the end of this metamorphosis, 00:35:51.130 --> 00:35:55.560 align:middle line:84% the adult stage as represented by physical castes, that's 00:35:55.560 --> 00:36:01.280 align:middle line:84% the term that myrmecologists use to describe these adults. 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:06.500 align:middle line:84% And what I want to conflate here or get rid of here 00:36:06.500 --> 00:36:09.640 align:middle line:84% is a bias that you may think, well, there's a baby adult 00:36:09.640 --> 00:36:12.110 align:middle line:84% and this is the bigger adult that the baby grows into. 00:36:12.110 --> 00:36:14.390 align:middle line:90% Now, these are all adults. 00:36:14.390 --> 00:36:19.120 align:middle line:84% They represent final end stages of these lines that 00:36:19.120 --> 00:36:23.080 align:middle line:84% are being determined by certain characteristics of the eggs that 00:36:23.080 --> 00:36:25.310 align:middle line:90% were laid by the queen. 00:36:25.310 --> 00:36:30.560 align:middle line:84% So they represent distinct physical entities. 00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:32.690 align:middle line:90% And the queen produced them all. 00:36:32.690 --> 00:36:34.700 align:middle line:84% But they look very different from one another. 00:36:34.700 --> 00:36:38.000 align:middle line:84% They're all female, by the way, and they're all sterile. 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:39.560 align:middle line:90% They don't reproduce. 00:36:39.560 --> 00:36:42.920 align:middle line:84% All they do is contribute to the functioning of the colony. 00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:47.470 align:middle line:84% And each of these castes, each of these different types 00:36:47.470 --> 00:36:50.800 align:middle line:84% of adults have slightly different functions 00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:53.320 align:middle line:90% in association with the colony. 00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:57.830 align:middle line:84% So the largest one here is a soldier, again, 00:36:57.830 --> 00:37:01.870 align:middle line:84% a name that we gave to that cast to talk 00:37:01.870 --> 00:37:06.530 align:middle line:84% about the defensive properties of that particular adult. 00:37:06.530 --> 00:37:11.750 align:middle line:84% The smaller ones are referred to as minims because of their size. 00:37:11.750 --> 00:37:15.320 align:middle line:84% If we look at the tasks that they are involved in, 00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:20.150 align:middle line:84% they take care of the eggs, they take care of the fungus, 00:37:20.150 --> 00:37:23.660 align:middle line:84% and they take care of many other activities, 00:37:23.660 --> 00:37:26.890 align:middle line:84% getting rid of trash, getting rid of dead bodies that 00:37:26.890 --> 00:37:31.690 align:middle line:84% are a part of being in the ant colony. 00:37:31.690 --> 00:37:37.700 align:middle line:84% And the last thing to say is that as these workers, 00:37:37.700 --> 00:37:42.310 align:middle line:84% as these castes age, their behaviors also 00:37:42.310 --> 00:37:45.010 align:middle line:90% change as a function of age. 00:37:45.010 --> 00:37:48.970 align:middle line:84% So if you look at some of the largest workers here, 00:37:48.970 --> 00:37:52.270 align:middle line:84% they not only have this defensive function associated 00:37:52.270 --> 00:37:56.360 align:middle line:84% with them, but they have the tremendous function of bringing 00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:58.860 align:middle line:90% food into the ant colony. 00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:04.370 align:middle line:84% And to do that, the food that you'll be seeing them gather 00:38:04.370 --> 00:38:09.260 align:middle line:84% are leaf fragments that are brought into the ant colony. 00:38:09.260 --> 00:38:13.290 align:middle line:84% They do that by cutting leaves up into little pieces 00:38:13.290 --> 00:38:17.930 align:middle line:84% and transporting those pieces of leaves into the ant colony. 00:38:17.930 --> 00:38:21.810 align:middle line:84% And as they're performing this cutting activity, 00:38:21.810 --> 00:38:24.030 align:middle line:90% their mandibles become dull. 00:38:24.030 --> 00:38:27.750 align:middle line:84% They become much less efficient at cutting the leaves. 00:38:27.750 --> 00:38:32.720 align:middle line:84% In fact, in the oldest ones that are leaf cutters, 00:38:32.720 --> 00:38:38.030 align:middle line:84% there are only half as efficient when they reach a certain age 00:38:38.030 --> 00:38:41.520 align:middle line:84% than they were when they started out doing that activity, 00:38:41.520 --> 00:38:45.840 align:middle line:84% but it takes them twice as long to cut the leaf fragments. 00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:50.930 align:middle line:84% So there's this trade offs, there's this point in time 00:38:50.930 --> 00:38:54.630 align:middle line:84% where those ants that used to be good at leaf cutting 00:38:54.630 --> 00:38:57.060 align:middle line:84% are no longer efficient, and they'll 00:38:57.060 --> 00:39:01.230 align:middle line:84% transition to a second behavior of just carrying the leaf 00:39:01.230 --> 00:39:05.070 align:middle line:84% fragments back to the colony instead of being responsible 00:39:05.070 --> 00:39:07.330 align:middle line:90% for cutting the leaf fragments. 00:39:07.330 --> 00:39:11.800 align:middle line:90% So we call that age polyethism. 00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:16.060 align:middle line:84% Polyethism means different behaviors. 00:39:16.060 --> 00:39:20.400 align:middle line:84% Age is what the variable is that produces 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:21.793 align:middle line:90% those differences in behavior. 00:39:21.793 --> 00:39:26.950 align:middle line:90% 00:39:26.950 --> 00:39:27.450 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:39:27.450 --> 00:39:29.640 align:middle line:84% Somebody got curious about what these ant 00:39:29.640 --> 00:39:32.820 align:middle line:84% colonies look like in their extent when 00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:34.600 align:middle line:90% they reach maturation. 00:39:34.600 --> 00:39:37.230 align:middle line:84% And this particular leafcutter ant colony 00:39:37.230 --> 00:39:42.190 align:middle line:84% was found in an old cow pasture somewhere in Central America. 00:39:42.190 --> 00:39:46.030 align:middle line:84% The colony itself had been abandoned for many years, 00:39:46.030 --> 00:39:49.650 align:middle line:84% and they decided to haul out a concrete truck 00:39:49.650 --> 00:39:51.750 align:middle line:84% and fill up the tunnels with concrete 00:39:51.750 --> 00:39:56.920 align:middle line:84% and try and excavate the extent of that leafcutter colony. 00:39:56.920 --> 00:39:58.490 align:middle line:90% These are people down here. 00:39:58.490 --> 00:39:59.840 align:middle line:90% Those aren't ants. 00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:03.220 align:middle line:84% And this is the extent of the colony 00:40:03.220 --> 00:40:07.370 align:middle line:84% that they excavated during that process. 00:40:07.370 --> 00:40:11.330 align:middle line:84% There's a backhoe off camera that helped them dig the hole, 00:40:11.330 --> 00:40:16.810 align:middle line:84% because they had no idea how large this ant colony was. 00:40:16.810 --> 00:40:21.980 align:middle line:84% What we're seeing there is the production of about 5 00:40:21.980 --> 00:40:27.020 align:middle line:84% to 8 million individual workers that existed in that ant colony, 00:40:27.020 --> 00:40:29.620 align:middle line:90% producing that structure. 00:40:29.620 --> 00:40:31.430 align:middle line:90% Nobody was in control. 00:40:31.430 --> 00:40:34.970 align:middle line:84% That's something that they did as an aggregate. 00:40:34.970 --> 00:40:37.570 align:middle line:90% And the last slide is this one. 00:40:37.570 --> 00:40:40.150 align:middle line:84% I talked about the leafcutter ants 00:40:40.150 --> 00:40:43.960 align:middle line:84% bringing leaf fragments into the colony. 00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:48.310 align:middle line:84% There you get a nice view of the workers carrying the leaf 00:40:48.310 --> 00:40:49.690 align:middle line:90% fragments. 00:40:49.690 --> 00:40:52.880 align:middle line:84% Here are the workers disassembling a leaf. 00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:57.460 align:middle line:84% And here are the leaf fragments that have been piled together 00:40:57.460 --> 00:41:00.280 align:middle line:90% inside the ant colony. 00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:04.960 align:middle line:84% That mass, that fungal mass is grown off 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:07.060 align:middle line:90% of these leaf fragments. 00:41:07.060 --> 00:41:10.100 align:middle line:84% If you know something about sourdough bread, 00:41:10.100 --> 00:41:14.140 align:middle line:84% you always have the starter that you need to make the bread. 00:41:14.140 --> 00:41:16.640 align:middle line:84% That's the starter for the ant colonies. 00:41:16.640 --> 00:41:18.470 align:middle line:90% It's basically the fungus. 00:41:18.470 --> 00:41:22.280 align:middle line:84% The ants don't eat the leaves directly. 00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:25.690 align:middle line:84% What they do is grow fungus on the leaf fragments that 00:41:25.690 --> 00:41:30.740 align:middle line:84% have been mulched and on the fungus, 00:41:30.740 --> 00:41:34.900 align:middle line:84% there are small bumps and small fruiting bodies 00:41:34.900 --> 00:41:39.230 align:middle line:84% that the ants actually consume as food. 00:41:39.230 --> 00:41:45.020 align:middle line:84% So the leaf fragments come into the colony, they're munched up, 00:41:45.020 --> 00:41:45.980 align:middle line:90% they're grown. 00:41:45.980 --> 00:41:50.780 align:middle line:84% They are implanted with fungus and the products 00:41:50.780 --> 00:41:54.710 align:middle line:84% of that fungus are, in essence, what the leafcutter ants are now 00:41:54.710 --> 00:41:56.390 align:middle line:90% consuming. 00:41:56.390 --> 00:41:58.410 align:middle line:84% Well, what's the queen doing in all this? 00:41:58.410 --> 00:42:00.080 align:middle line:90% Isn't she in charge? 00:42:00.080 --> 00:42:03.930 align:middle line:84% That queen designation is a biased designation. 00:42:03.930 --> 00:42:09.770 align:middle line:84% She is in some chamber being fed with these fungal food products 00:42:09.770 --> 00:42:11.070 align:middle line:90% by workers. 00:42:11.070 --> 00:42:14.370 align:middle line:84% She no longer goes around inside the colonies. 00:42:14.370 --> 00:42:16.760 align:middle line:84% She is sequestered in a single chamber 00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:18.270 align:middle line:90% for the rest of her life. 00:42:18.270 --> 00:42:21.230 align:middle line:84% And like I said, that's like 10 to 15 years, 00:42:21.230 --> 00:42:25.790 align:middle line:84% underground in the dark, being fed by workers. 00:42:25.790 --> 00:42:29.880 align:middle line:84% She no longer has the capacity to move around. 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:33.060 align:middle line:84% She no longer has the capacity to dispose of her waste. 00:42:33.060 --> 00:42:35.250 align:middle line:90% That's all done by workers. 00:42:35.250 --> 00:42:39.500 align:middle line:84% So it seems to me, this entire subject 00:42:39.500 --> 00:42:43.370 align:middle line:84% of looking at a leafcutter ant queen 00:42:43.370 --> 00:42:47.250 align:middle line:84% is the process of giving up autonomy. 00:42:47.250 --> 00:42:49.450 align:middle line:84% She used to be able to do everything, 00:42:49.450 --> 00:42:52.660 align:middle line:84% and in the final moments of her life, 00:42:52.660 --> 00:42:57.150 align:middle line:84% she can do absolutely one thing, produce eggs. 00:42:57.150 --> 00:43:02.940 align:middle line:84% So when we talk about a superorganism, what we're 00:43:02.940 --> 00:43:07.620 align:middle line:84% seeing, in this case, using a biological lens 00:43:07.620 --> 00:43:13.380 align:middle line:84% is something that biologists like to call the ancillary gut. 00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:19.450 align:middle line:84% Think of your stomach as being represented by this fungus pile. 00:43:19.450 --> 00:43:23.680 align:middle line:84% Think of the activities of your stomach helping to nourish you 00:43:23.680 --> 00:43:27.090 align:middle line:84% in the same way these ants are using the fungus 00:43:27.090 --> 00:43:30.010 align:middle line:84% pile to nourish the entire colony. 00:43:30.010 --> 00:43:36.250 align:middle line:84% So whatever an ant colony is, it's a colony of ants, 00:43:36.250 --> 00:43:40.030 align:middle line:84% but those ants are totally dependent upon one another. 00:43:40.030 --> 00:43:42.460 align:middle line:84% If you take a worker out of the colony, 00:43:42.460 --> 00:43:45.740 align:middle line:84% the worker has no capacity to reproduce. 00:43:45.740 --> 00:43:50.720 align:middle line:84% It has barely enough capacity to gather a leaf fragment, 00:43:50.720 --> 00:43:52.630 align:middle line:84% but then it doesn't have the capacity 00:43:52.630 --> 00:43:55.490 align:middle line:84% to grow fungus on that leaf fragment, 00:43:55.490 --> 00:43:57.920 align:middle line:90% so the worker starves to death. 00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:01.430 align:middle line:84% If you do the same similar action to the queen, 00:44:01.430 --> 00:44:03.320 align:middle line:90% take her out of the colony. 00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:05.720 align:middle line:84% She doesn't know how to feed herself anymore. 00:44:05.720 --> 00:44:07.790 align:middle line:84% She can't defend herself anymore. 00:44:07.790 --> 00:44:14.290 align:middle line:84% So she no longer represents this idea of an autonomous entity. 00:44:14.290 --> 00:44:22.360 align:middle line:84% So in my mind, that is another piece of evidence 00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:25.810 align:middle line:84% that takes this idea of an individual 00:44:25.810 --> 00:44:31.900 align:middle line:84% and disassembles that idea or obscures that idea. 00:44:31.900 --> 00:44:34.510 align:middle line:84% The last thing that I'd like you to think about 00:44:34.510 --> 00:44:37.600 align:middle line:84% in looking at a leafcutter colony 00:44:37.600 --> 00:44:43.960 align:middle line:84% is to think about humans and the human's relationship 00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:47.500 align:middle line:84% to earth and thinking about the leafcutter ant 00:44:47.500 --> 00:44:49.430 align:middle line:90% colony as a metaphor. 00:44:49.430 --> 00:44:53.440 align:middle line:84% I think the fungal pile that the leafcutter ants rely upon 00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:56.180 align:middle line:90% for us is the earth. 00:44:56.180 --> 00:44:58.430 align:middle line:90% We can't exist without it. 00:44:58.430 --> 00:45:02.680 align:middle line:84% There isn't anything that we can do to replicate an earth that's 00:45:02.680 --> 00:45:04.780 align:middle line:90% going to help nourish us. 00:45:04.780 --> 00:45:08.380 align:middle line:84% And yet we take it for granted that it's always 00:45:08.380 --> 00:45:10.580 align:middle line:84% going to be there, just like the ants do 00:45:10.580 --> 00:45:12.500 align:middle line:90% and the leafcutter ant colony. 00:45:12.500 --> 00:45:16.040 align:middle line:84% And we don't know much about how it operates. 00:45:16.040 --> 00:45:21.640 align:middle line:84% All we do, all we know is that the fungal pile provides food 00:45:21.640 --> 00:45:25.660 align:middle line:84% for us, and all we know is that the earth provides us 00:45:25.660 --> 00:45:34.460 align:middle line:84% with food, housing, our total place in the universe. 00:45:34.460 --> 00:45:38.315 align:middle line:90% So I think that's it for me. 00:45:38.315 --> 00:45:40.023 align:middle line:84% Let's take a minute and think and revise. 00:45:40.023 --> 00:45:44.420 align:middle line:90% 00:45:44.420 --> 00:45:49.270 align:middle line:84% It turns out-- it turns out that-- 00:45:49.270 --> 00:45:51.650 align:middle line:90% if you're writing, ignore me. 00:45:51.650 --> 00:45:56.420 align:middle line:84% But it turns out that if we revisit our thinking from time 00:45:56.420 --> 00:45:59.840 align:middle line:84% to time and reflect with new knowledge 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:03.890 align:middle line:84% and integrate that before we take on more new knowledge, more 00:46:03.890 --> 00:46:06.673 align:middle line:84% perspective, it's called the metacognitive cycle. 00:46:06.673 --> 00:46:07.590 align:middle line:90% It's important enough. 00:46:07.590 --> 00:46:09.140 align:middle line:90% There's a name for it. 00:46:09.140 --> 00:46:12.250 align:middle line:90% So we're embedding that. 00:46:12.250 --> 00:46:15.560 align:middle line:90% 00:46:15.560 --> 00:46:16.820 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:46:16.820 --> 00:46:19.670 align:middle line:90% Ryan Falcioni. 00:46:19.670 --> 00:46:20.490 align:middle line:90% Thanks, Robin. 00:46:20.490 --> 00:46:23.000 align:middle line:84% Yeah, thank you to Rebecca, Robin and the panelists 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:24.710 align:middle line:90% for putting this together. 00:46:24.710 --> 00:46:25.440 align:middle line:90% It should be fun. 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:28.310 align:middle line:84% And again, not to pressure you, but I think usually the Q&A 00:46:28.310 --> 00:46:29.900 align:middle line:90% is the best part of this stuff. 00:46:29.900 --> 00:46:32.270 align:middle line:84% So this first question, which I think 00:46:32.270 --> 00:46:35.400 align:middle line:84% we've had some really good light shed on it already, 00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:38.102 align:middle line:84% is really what is the individual or self. 00:46:38.102 --> 00:46:39.560 align:middle line:84% What are we talking about here when 00:46:39.560 --> 00:46:42.040 align:middle line:84% we say, there's something called individuality, 00:46:42.040 --> 00:46:44.515 align:middle line:84% whether it's a myth or a fiction or illusion or not. 00:46:44.515 --> 00:46:46.890 align:middle line:84% And what is a self, whether that's real or not or fiction 00:46:46.890 --> 00:46:47.970 align:middle line:90% or illusion. 00:46:47.970 --> 00:46:50.130 align:middle line:84% And the difficulty is there's no agreement 00:46:50.130 --> 00:46:51.545 align:middle line:90% on what these terms mean. 00:46:51.545 --> 00:46:54.660 align:middle line:84% Think about just the difference in different disciplines, 00:46:54.660 --> 00:46:58.360 align:middle line:84% how you would understand what an individual something is, right. 00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.330 align:middle line:84% Every discipline has its own perspective. 00:47:01.330 --> 00:47:03.490 align:middle line:84% Like, the ant question is interesting, right. 00:47:03.490 --> 00:47:04.930 align:middle line:90% We ask what's going on there? 00:47:04.930 --> 00:47:07.120 align:middle line:84% What are the individual parts of that reality? 00:47:07.120 --> 00:47:08.140 align:middle line:90% Is it individual ants? 00:47:08.140 --> 00:47:09.618 align:middle line:90% Is it the ant colony? 00:47:09.618 --> 00:47:11.410 align:middle line:84% Is it the broader ecosystem it's a part of? 00:47:11.410 --> 00:47:14.760 align:middle line:84% Is it the universe and all the way down to I 00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:17.310 align:middle line:84% could imagine a physicist looking at the particles 00:47:17.310 --> 00:47:19.380 align:middle line:84% and interactions involved or the chemist 00:47:19.380 --> 00:47:22.180 align:middle line:84% looking at the chemical reactions interactions involved. 00:47:22.180 --> 00:47:25.333 align:middle line:84% And so if we think of the different disciplines having 00:47:25.333 --> 00:47:27.250 align:middle line:84% a bit of a different interest in those things, 00:47:27.250 --> 00:47:29.380 align:middle line:84% so do different philosophers and philosophies, right. 00:47:29.380 --> 00:47:30.310 align:middle line:90% What's an individual? 00:47:30.310 --> 00:47:31.540 align:middle line:90% How do we carve up the world? 00:47:31.540 --> 00:47:33.940 align:middle line:90% What components matter? 00:47:33.940 --> 00:47:36.060 align:middle line:84% And there's always an ethical implication to that. 00:47:36.060 --> 00:47:38.620 align:middle line:84% How do I carve up the world says a lot about what I value. 00:47:38.620 --> 00:47:40.328 align:middle line:84% And in fact, I had a philosopher say this 00:47:40.328 --> 00:47:43.023 align:middle line:84% once of how you carve up the world what's real, what's not, 00:47:43.023 --> 00:47:44.690 align:middle line:84% what-- even what's an individual or not. 00:47:44.690 --> 00:47:48.520 align:middle line:84% So there's a lot more about you than it does about the world. 00:47:48.520 --> 00:47:50.750 align:middle line:84% And doing that, I mean, for better or for worse, 00:47:50.750 --> 00:47:51.910 align:middle line:90% is always exclusionary. 00:47:51.910 --> 00:47:53.290 align:middle line:84% Once we say what an individual is 00:47:53.290 --> 00:47:56.440 align:middle line:84% or if we're thinking more about now persons or beings 00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:58.250 align:middle line:90% that ourselves, what selves are. 00:47:58.250 --> 00:48:00.910 align:middle line:90% It's always exclusionary. 00:48:00.910 --> 00:48:03.202 align:middle line:84% This is actually a really big point in feminist theory. 00:48:03.202 --> 00:48:05.702 align:middle line:84% I was just reading something the other day that said the act 00:48:05.702 --> 00:48:08.440 align:middle line:84% of describing a self is always exclusionary because some people 00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:12.160 align:middle line:84% count or some things count and some don't. 00:48:12.160 --> 00:48:14.980 align:middle line:84% And historically, that's been used for all sorts 00:48:14.980 --> 00:48:16.040 align:middle line:90% of malevolent purposes. 00:48:16.040 --> 00:48:18.680 align:middle line:84% And so this issue now of what counts as an individual, 00:48:18.680 --> 00:48:21.370 align:middle line:84% there's an interdisciplinary question, individual what? 00:48:21.370 --> 00:48:23.120 align:middle line:84% We're not talking about just persons here, 00:48:23.120 --> 00:48:24.537 align:middle line:84% but just what constitutes reality. 00:48:24.537 --> 00:48:26.120 align:middle line:84% What are the part whole relationships? 00:48:26.120 --> 00:48:28.245 align:middle line:84% And we can ask that a million different ways to get 00:48:28.245 --> 00:48:29.480 align:middle line:90% a million different answers. 00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:31.120 align:middle line:84% And then the more interesting question 00:48:31.120 --> 00:48:32.560 align:middle line:84% I think we're all getting at here 00:48:32.560 --> 00:48:34.160 align:middle line:90% is what is our role in that. 00:48:34.160 --> 00:48:36.100 align:middle line:84% Or what are selves and I think selves here 00:48:36.100 --> 00:48:39.390 align:middle line:84% we mean something like a being or a thing. 00:48:39.390 --> 00:48:44.130 align:middle line:84% It could be an individual thing that is self-aware 00:48:44.130 --> 00:48:45.690 align:middle line:84% or that it matters to them how things 00:48:45.690 --> 00:48:47.002 align:middle line:90% go for them has interests. 00:48:47.002 --> 00:48:49.210 align:middle line:84% We might even say ego, but I want to avoid that here. 00:48:49.210 --> 00:48:52.380 align:middle line:84% But a self is something that has an awareness of their being 00:48:52.380 --> 00:48:56.550 align:middle line:84% and some awareness of their interests or goals or whatever. 00:48:56.550 --> 00:49:00.180 align:middle line:84% And so again, I don't have a good answer for exactly 00:49:00.180 --> 00:49:01.510 align:middle line:90% who or what counts there. 00:49:01.510 --> 00:49:04.980 align:middle line:84% I think the battleground right now 00:49:04.980 --> 00:49:07.410 align:middle line:84% seems to be what to do with various animals 00:49:07.410 --> 00:49:08.770 align:middle line:90% and even ecosystems. 00:49:08.770 --> 00:49:10.590 align:middle line:90% Can an ecosystem be a self? 00:49:10.590 --> 00:49:13.300 align:middle line:84% Can it matter for an ecosystem how it goes for that ecosystem? 00:49:13.300 --> 00:49:17.400 align:middle line:84% Do they have interests that should matter ethically? 00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:18.473 align:middle line:90% Individual animals. 00:49:18.473 --> 00:49:20.140 align:middle line:84% And so I'm just throwing that out there. 00:49:20.140 --> 00:49:23.190 align:middle line:84% I have a view which may come up if you ask me. 00:49:23.190 --> 00:49:24.707 align:middle line:90% I won't address that right now. 00:49:24.707 --> 00:49:26.290 align:middle line:84% But I think that's pretty interesting. 00:49:26.290 --> 00:49:28.915 align:middle line:84% So again, there's philosophical, scientific, religious, ethical 00:49:28.915 --> 00:49:29.500 align:middle line:90% dimensions. 00:49:29.500 --> 00:49:30.700 align:middle line:90% We touched on a few. 00:49:30.700 --> 00:49:33.790 align:middle line:84% I'm going to hone in on this more philosophical debate. 00:49:33.790 --> 00:49:36.320 align:middle line:84% And that'll be the second slide in just a minute here. 00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:40.290 align:middle line:84% But the big question in the history of philosophy has been; 00:49:40.290 --> 00:49:42.382 align:middle line:84% really, is there a self, and if so, what is it, 00:49:42.382 --> 00:49:43.340 align:middle line:90% where is it, et cetera. 00:49:43.340 --> 00:49:44.798 align:middle line:84% In fact, I almost did a slide where 00:49:44.798 --> 00:49:47.040 align:middle line:84% I said, is there a physical or a metaphysical self. 00:49:47.040 --> 00:49:50.810 align:middle line:84% And then I had the second slide and say no, discussion over. 00:49:50.810 --> 00:49:52.590 align:middle line:90% There is no substantive self. 00:49:52.590 --> 00:49:54.780 align:middle line:84% You can't put a finger on what a self is, 00:49:54.780 --> 00:49:56.030 align:middle line:90% or even what an individual is. 00:49:56.030 --> 00:49:57.860 align:middle line:84% These are both conceptual, but what a self is. 00:49:57.860 --> 00:49:59.360 align:middle line:84% You can't say that there's the self. 00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:01.520 align:middle line:84% It's the brain or it's in the brain 00:50:01.520 --> 00:50:03.223 align:middle line:84% or-- and you've seen probably a bit 00:50:03.223 --> 00:50:05.390 align:middle line:84% about the history of pseudoscience, many interesting 00:50:05.390 --> 00:50:08.345 align:middle line:84% pseudo-scientific forays into finding the self, the whole 21 00:50:08.345 --> 00:50:11.040 align:middle line:84% grams experiment, 100 something years ago, 00:50:11.040 --> 00:50:12.740 align:middle line:84% weighing dead bodies-- weighing bodies 00:50:12.740 --> 00:50:16.620 align:middle line:84% as they die on this very delicate scale, 00:50:16.620 --> 00:50:20.970 align:middle line:84% and then assessing based on how much lighter they got at death, 00:50:20.970 --> 00:50:22.053 align:middle line:90% how much the soul weighed. 00:50:22.053 --> 00:50:23.595 align:middle line:84% And that's where-- you probably heard 00:50:23.595 --> 00:50:25.820 align:middle line:84% that there's a movie about that, I think, 21 grams. 00:50:25.820 --> 00:50:26.790 align:middle line:90% Pretty bizarre. 00:50:26.790 --> 00:50:28.730 align:middle line:84% By the way, even that study highlights 00:50:28.730 --> 00:50:32.100 align:middle line:84% some of these intersections of these definitions and concepts, 00:50:32.100 --> 00:50:36.270 align:middle line:84% because the study I think, involves six humans and then 00:50:36.270 --> 00:50:39.970 align:middle line:84% tons of dogs and the dogs, by the way, 00:50:39.970 --> 00:50:42.000 align:middle line:84% to be weighed and sedated the way 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:44.370 align:middle line:84% they were, were arguably either poisoned or sabotaged 00:50:44.370 --> 00:50:45.130 align:middle line:90% in some way. 00:50:45.130 --> 00:50:47.672 align:middle line:84% So it's interesting that even in the-- and the goal there was 00:50:47.672 --> 00:50:50.700 align:middle line:84% to even show that humans have souls and dogs don't. 00:50:50.700 --> 00:50:52.723 align:middle line:84% First of all, what a weird experiment to think 00:50:52.723 --> 00:50:53.890 align:middle line:90% that-- it's been replicated. 00:50:53.890 --> 00:50:55.432 align:middle line:84% People keep trying to do this, right. 00:50:55.432 --> 00:50:57.510 align:middle line:84% Like now, these super sensitive scales and you 00:50:57.510 --> 00:50:59.170 align:middle line:84% can capture the soul, which again, 00:50:59.170 --> 00:51:02.170 align:middle line:84% would be the seed of the self or maybe the self itself. 00:51:02.170 --> 00:51:04.620 align:middle line:84% But even in that, you see the speciesism, 00:51:04.620 --> 00:51:06.480 align:middle line:84% dogs don't count as selves, so they 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:09.120 align:middle line:84% can be whatever ultimately tortured 00:51:09.120 --> 00:51:12.770 align:middle line:84% into being weighed upon death because they're not selves. 00:51:12.770 --> 00:51:15.270 align:middle line:84% Even the experiment to find where the self is, in some ways, 00:51:15.270 --> 00:51:16.360 align:middle line:90% what the self is. 00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:19.320 align:middle line:84% There's already a decision made that dogs aren't selves 00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:19.930 align:middle line:90% doesn't-- 00:51:19.930 --> 00:51:21.908 align:middle line:84% we don't care about their interests 00:51:21.908 --> 00:51:23.950 align:middle line:84% or if it matters to them, how life goes for them. 00:51:23.950 --> 00:51:25.980 align:middle line:84% So anyway, that's just a little highlight 00:51:25.980 --> 00:51:28.470 align:middle line:90% of the intersectionality there. 00:51:28.470 --> 00:51:30.593 align:middle line:84% And then this third point here really about well, 00:51:30.593 --> 00:51:31.260 align:middle line:90% then what is it. 00:51:31.260 --> 00:51:33.150 align:middle line:84% When we talk about a self or even just an individual, 00:51:33.150 --> 00:51:34.317 align:middle line:90% we're thinking more broadly. 00:51:34.317 --> 00:51:36.380 align:middle line:84% We're carving up reality into individual units 00:51:36.380 --> 00:51:38.845 align:middle line:84% and this whole relationship, what are we doing? 00:51:38.845 --> 00:51:40.220 align:middle line:84% And I want to introduce or invite 00:51:40.220 --> 00:51:42.740 align:middle line:84% you to consider a better way to say it, the reality 00:51:42.740 --> 00:51:45.718 align:middle line:84% that all of these definitions and explanations and experiments 00:51:45.718 --> 00:51:47.010 align:middle line:90% and stories we tell about them. 00:51:47.010 --> 00:51:48.620 align:middle line:90% They're stories. 00:51:48.620 --> 00:51:50.610 align:middle line:84% There's a journalist, I think he's 00:51:50.610 --> 00:51:52.970 align:middle line:84% an English professor, Jonathan Gottschall, who says, 00:51:52.970 --> 00:51:54.680 align:middle line:84% humans are the original storytellers 00:51:54.680 --> 00:51:56.790 align:middle line:84% and we're invariably storytellers. 00:51:56.790 --> 00:51:58.940 align:middle line:84% Homo fictus or Homo fictus what's-- 00:51:58.940 --> 00:52:00.260 align:middle line:90% not Homo sapiens, Homo fictus. 00:52:00.260 --> 00:52:02.160 align:middle line:84% Were humans because we tell stories. 00:52:02.160 --> 00:52:03.300 align:middle line:90% That's what we do. 00:52:03.300 --> 00:52:05.640 align:middle line:84% And the first story is the story of a self. 00:52:05.640 --> 00:52:08.540 align:middle line:84% So many neuroscientists and evolutionary psychologists 00:52:08.540 --> 00:52:11.240 align:middle line:84% have gotten into this work that it seems that at some point 00:52:11.240 --> 00:52:14.010 align:middle line:84% it served our interests or at least some humans interest, 00:52:14.010 --> 00:52:16.050 align:middle line:84% to tell the story that there was a self. 00:52:16.050 --> 00:52:17.580 align:middle line:84% That if you believe there's a self and an ego, 00:52:17.580 --> 00:52:19.747 align:middle line:84% you have an interest in protecting that, and so that 00:52:19.747 --> 00:52:22.220 align:middle line:84% at some point it served a net reproductive advantage 00:52:22.220 --> 00:52:24.060 align:middle line:84% to tell the story, which is a story. 00:52:24.060 --> 00:52:27.260 align:middle line:84% It's an illusion that I'm a self independent from others. 00:52:27.260 --> 00:52:30.330 align:middle line:84% Sometimes even my own kin that I'm separate from. 00:52:30.330 --> 00:52:32.068 align:middle line:90% And in some ways I matter more. 00:52:32.068 --> 00:52:34.610 align:middle line:84% And if you want to get really a field which we can talk about 00:52:34.610 --> 00:52:38.840 align:middle line:84% in the discussion, you can draw a line from that original story 00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:41.760 align:middle line:84% to pretty much all of the enterprises of ego, 00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:45.270 align:middle line:84% whether it's imperialism, capitalism, colonialism. 00:52:45.270 --> 00:52:47.360 align:middle line:84% If I'm a self and my interests matter 00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:51.050 align:middle line:84% and I'm a better, bigger self, the more I can accumulate 00:52:51.050 --> 00:52:53.600 align:middle line:84% or the more I can accomplish, it seems 00:52:53.600 --> 00:52:56.000 align:middle line:84% that that myth, that original story 00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:00.050 align:middle line:84% might be quite pernicious, or at least ethically problematic. 00:53:00.050 --> 00:53:03.060 align:middle line:84% And then again, all our stories stem from there. 00:53:03.060 --> 00:53:05.425 align:middle line:84% So it's a two layers to this Homo fictus. 00:53:05.425 --> 00:53:07.200 align:middle line:90% The original story of the self. 00:53:07.200 --> 00:53:10.790 align:middle line:84% There might be prior stories for earlier or human ancestors, 00:53:10.790 --> 00:53:15.410 align:middle line:84% but at some point, this story entered into the human sphere. 00:53:15.410 --> 00:53:19.820 align:middle line:84% We ourselves, we have interests and we value those and generally 00:53:19.820 --> 00:53:24.667 align:middle line:84% over and above others, hence-- hence this survival piece of it. 00:53:24.667 --> 00:53:26.750 align:middle line:84% And then we tell ourselves a million other stories 00:53:26.750 --> 00:53:29.540 align:middle line:84% to rationalize that or to support 00:53:29.540 --> 00:53:32.450 align:middle line:84% that in the endeavors that stem from there. 00:53:32.450 --> 00:53:34.198 align:middle line:84% So leaving that on hold for a second. 00:53:34.198 --> 00:53:36.240 align:middle line:84% This final point, which is really the next slide, 00:53:36.240 --> 00:53:38.540 align:middle line:84% is I want to invite you to consider 00:53:38.540 --> 00:53:43.830 align:middle line:84% this more ethical dimension of how we understand the self. 00:53:43.830 --> 00:53:46.958 align:middle line:84% And the value of self seems to be very ethically significant. 00:53:46.958 --> 00:53:48.750 align:middle line:84% There's an irreducibility the ethical here. 00:53:48.750 --> 00:53:51.350 align:middle line:84% How we understand ourselves or what a self is, 00:53:51.350 --> 00:53:53.625 align:middle line:84% I think has these ethical connotations 00:53:53.625 --> 00:53:56.000 align:middle line:84% and can be one of the more important and rich discussions 00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:57.270 align:middle line:90% to be had here. 00:53:57.270 --> 00:53:58.932 align:middle line:84% So I'm trying to draw a contrast. 00:53:58.932 --> 00:54:00.390 align:middle line:84% I initially had different thinkers. 00:54:00.390 --> 00:54:03.950 align:middle line:84% I had like Ayn Rand and some non-dualist thinkers that 00:54:03.950 --> 00:54:05.993 align:middle line:84% were contemporary, and then I landed on this 00:54:05.993 --> 00:54:08.660 align:middle line:84% because it's a great one for the class of history of philosophy. 00:54:08.660 --> 00:54:11.090 align:middle line:84% Eastern and Western, these classical stories 00:54:11.090 --> 00:54:13.590 align:middle line:84% in some ways of self or about self, I should say. 00:54:13.590 --> 00:54:16.400 align:middle line:84% So many of you probably have heard of Descartes. 00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:21.030 align:middle line:84% He's a late 16, mostly 17th-century philosopher, 00:54:21.030 --> 00:54:23.070 align:middle line:84% one of the founders of the enlightenment. 00:54:23.070 --> 00:54:27.690 align:middle line:84% And for him, the self is really the only undoubtable reality 00:54:27.690 --> 00:54:29.207 align:middle line:90% there is, right. 00:54:29.207 --> 00:54:30.790 align:middle line:84% He says you can doubt everything else. 00:54:30.790 --> 00:54:31.790 align:middle line:90% And we know the cogito-- 00:54:31.790 --> 00:54:33.943 align:middle line:84% Cogito, ergo sum, which "I think, therefore I am." 00:54:33.943 --> 00:54:35.110 align:middle line:90% You probably all heard that. 00:54:35.110 --> 00:54:36.370 align:middle line:90% Why does he say that? 00:54:36.370 --> 00:54:38.370 align:middle line:84% Well, he says, the one thing you can never doubt 00:54:38.370 --> 00:54:39.070 align:middle line:90% is that there's a self. 00:54:39.070 --> 00:54:41.730 align:middle line:84% Because even if you're doubting that there is a self, or you're 00:54:41.730 --> 00:54:43.560 align:middle line:84% doubting that there is reality, there's 00:54:43.560 --> 00:54:46.860 align:middle line:84% something doing the doubting and that self. 00:54:46.860 --> 00:54:49.050 align:middle line:84% That self is a founding myth of Western-- 00:54:49.050 --> 00:54:51.028 align:middle line:84% modern Western civilization here. 00:54:51.028 --> 00:54:53.320 align:middle line:84% This idea that there's a self and that you can't doubt. 00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:54.987 align:middle line:84% And much of the history of enlightenment 00:54:54.987 --> 00:54:57.280 align:middle line:84% builds upon that initial myth or story. 00:54:57.280 --> 00:54:58.590 align:middle line:90% There's a self. 00:54:58.590 --> 00:55:00.870 align:middle line:84% Then from here you get notions of property rights 00:55:00.870 --> 00:55:05.250 align:middle line:84% and all sorts of other things that come along 00:55:05.250 --> 00:55:06.655 align:middle line:90% with this notion of self. 00:55:06.655 --> 00:55:08.280 align:middle line:84% And again, drawing that line from there 00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:11.580 align:middle line:84% to many of the imperialist and colonialist endeavors 00:55:11.580 --> 00:55:15.010 align:middle line:84% and other things sexism, racism, et cetera, in the West. 00:55:15.010 --> 00:55:16.690 align:middle line:84% There's a self and that matters more, 00:55:16.690 --> 00:55:18.760 align:middle line:84% that matters the most because it's the most certain thing. 00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:20.468 align:middle line:84% And everything we know builds from there. 00:55:20.468 --> 00:55:24.050 align:middle line:84% And everything that's valued is built from there. 00:55:24.050 --> 00:55:25.690 align:middle line:84% And there's a lot I can say about that. 00:55:25.690 --> 00:55:26.690 align:middle line:90% I'll leave that on hold. 00:55:26.690 --> 00:55:29.380 align:middle line:84% Contrast that with these ideas from the Buddha 00:55:29.380 --> 00:55:33.360 align:middle line:84% and traditional Buddhism in both traditions. 00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:35.360 align:middle line:84% If-- we're not going to get into that right now. 00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:37.810 align:middle line:84% But the contrasting Descartes's notion 00:55:37.810 --> 00:55:42.650 align:middle line:84% here with the Buddha's notion of no self, right, 00:55:42.650 --> 00:55:44.990 align:middle line:84% which I think I'll get into that a little bit here. 00:55:44.990 --> 00:55:47.140 align:middle line:84% But anatman or anatta, which means 00:55:47.140 --> 00:55:49.790 align:middle line:84% that this is the founding, not just the founding myth, 00:55:49.790 --> 00:55:51.868 align:middle line:84% but the myth that leads to all suffering 00:55:51.868 --> 00:55:53.410 align:middle line:84% and ultimately all evil in the world. 00:55:53.410 --> 00:55:56.060 align:middle line:84% The whole goal of Buddhism is to get rid of self, 00:55:56.060 --> 00:55:59.560 align:middle line:84% to deny that there is an ego, to get rid of ego, because then you 00:55:59.560 --> 00:56:01.828 align:middle line:84% get rid of desire, which then involves 00:56:01.828 --> 00:56:02.870 align:middle line:90% a cessation of suffering. 00:56:02.870 --> 00:56:03.950 align:middle line:84% If you know the Four Noble Truths, 00:56:03.950 --> 00:56:05.140 align:middle line:90% there's a progression there. 00:56:05.140 --> 00:56:06.290 align:middle line:90% You see the cause of suffering. 00:56:06.290 --> 00:56:08.123 align:middle line:84% Ultimately, you see that there's a solution. 00:56:08.123 --> 00:56:11.360 align:middle line:84% It involves recognizing there is no ego, there is no self. 00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:13.160 align:middle line:84% It's an illusion, as Mark was getting at. 00:56:13.160 --> 00:56:14.060 align:middle line:90% I think Brody too. 00:56:14.060 --> 00:56:15.405 align:middle line:90% It's an illusion. 00:56:15.405 --> 00:56:17.530 align:middle line:84% It's a construction, but it's a false one and a one 00:56:17.530 --> 00:56:18.947 align:middle line:90% that leads to great suffering. 00:56:18.947 --> 00:56:20.530 align:middle line:84% And so meditating upon that and coming 00:56:20.530 --> 00:56:22.270 align:middle line:84% to realize there is no substantive self 00:56:22.270 --> 00:56:24.960 align:middle line:84% is necessary for any notion of happiness. 00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:26.522 align:middle line:90% In fact, there's a story. 00:56:26.522 --> 00:56:27.510 align:middle line:90% I read it a while ago. 00:56:27.510 --> 00:56:29.250 align:middle line:84% I think it's apocryphal, meaning probably not true, 00:56:29.250 --> 00:56:30.710 align:middle line:84% but it's attributed to the Buddha, where 00:56:30.710 --> 00:56:32.310 align:middle line:84% someone comes to the Buddha and says, I don't know. 00:56:32.310 --> 00:56:34.560 align:middle line:84% He says, hey, Buddha, but whatever he say, the Buddha. 00:56:34.560 --> 00:56:36.110 align:middle line:90% Hey, Buddha, you're buddhahood. 00:56:36.110 --> 00:56:37.340 align:middle line:90% I want happiness. 00:56:37.340 --> 00:56:40.010 align:middle line:84% And the Buddha says, well, you're close. 00:56:40.010 --> 00:56:41.930 align:middle line:84% You just gotta get rid of two things. 00:56:41.930 --> 00:56:45.767 align:middle line:84% I because that's ego, that's self, want that's desire. 00:56:45.767 --> 00:56:47.100 align:middle line:90% And then what are you left with? 00:56:47.100 --> 00:56:50.840 align:middle line:90% Happiness, right. 00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:53.847 align:middle line:84% But it's almost impossible to do that for many of us. 00:56:53.847 --> 00:56:56.180 align:middle line:84% And again, this big contrast between Eastern and Western 00:56:56.180 --> 00:56:56.850 align:middle line:90% philosophy here. 00:56:56.850 --> 00:56:58.700 align:middle line:84% But that is getting rid of both seems 00:56:58.700 --> 00:57:02.000 align:middle line:84% to be near to impossible in a culture in which egoism 00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:02.640 align:middle line:90% prevails. 00:57:02.640 --> 00:57:04.770 align:middle line:84% I mean, if I had to capture the American ethos, 00:57:04.770 --> 00:57:06.290 align:middle line:90% I would say egoism. 00:57:06.290 --> 00:57:08.292 align:middle line:84% Egoism-- maybe in this term of ethical egoism. 00:57:08.292 --> 00:57:11.000 align:middle line:84% If you know Ayn Rand and some of these theories, this idea of you 00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:13.460 align:middle line:84% have a duty to pursue your own self-interest, that's 00:57:13.460 --> 00:57:16.070 align:middle line:84% the highest moral duty to maximize 00:57:16.070 --> 00:57:17.497 align:middle line:90% the good that can come to you. 00:57:17.497 --> 00:57:19.080 align:middle line:84% Then you switch to Buddha and he says, 00:57:19.080 --> 00:57:21.705 align:middle line:84% that's the biggest lie and the biggest illusion that the source 00:57:21.705 --> 00:57:23.310 align:middle line:90% of all suffering in the world. 00:57:23.310 --> 00:57:28.550 align:middle line:84% The very ethos, the very ethic, the very mantra of our morality. 00:57:28.550 --> 00:57:30.780 align:middle line:84% And again, I'm not necessarily citing here. 00:57:30.780 --> 00:57:34.520 align:middle line:84% I think I have criticisms of egoism that are emerging. 00:57:34.520 --> 00:57:38.550 align:middle line:84% But another concept pratityasamutpada. 00:57:38.550 --> 00:57:39.480 align:middle line:90% I can barely say that. 00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:40.688 align:middle line:90% Don't bust me on my Sanskrit. 00:57:40.688 --> 00:57:44.240 align:middle line:84% But it's a notion of dependent arising, which 00:57:44.240 --> 00:57:46.490 align:middle line:84% is a key concept in Buddhism, that everything 00:57:46.490 --> 00:57:49.940 align:middle line:84% is interconnected and that all that we are and all that emerges 00:57:49.940 --> 00:57:51.722 align:middle line:90% is ephemeral. 00:57:51.722 --> 00:57:54.180 align:middle line:84% It's coming and going, and we're connected with everything. 00:57:54.180 --> 00:57:56.210 align:middle line:84% And the idea that we are an ego simply 00:57:56.210 --> 00:57:59.900 align:middle line:84% misunderstands the nature of the creative enterprise. 00:57:59.900 --> 00:58:01.080 align:middle line:90% And think of you, right. 00:58:01.080 --> 00:58:04.280 align:middle line:84% If-- let's say you were arguing that you are a self. 00:58:04.280 --> 00:58:07.140 align:middle line:84% And this notion would invite you to question, OK, well, 00:58:07.140 --> 00:58:08.280 align:middle line:90% how did you come about? 00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:09.630 align:middle line:90% How did you become a self? 00:58:09.630 --> 00:58:12.450 align:middle line:84% Well, arguably the variables that determine who you were, 00:58:12.450 --> 00:58:14.120 align:middle line:84% as Robin said, were things you probably 00:58:14.120 --> 00:58:15.980 align:middle line:84% want to think about your parents doing 00:58:15.980 --> 00:58:20.330 align:middle line:84% what they do to create people and a million other variables 00:58:20.330 --> 00:58:22.420 align:middle line:84% that are completely beyond your control. 00:58:22.420 --> 00:58:23.690 align:middle line:90% You didn't choose to be born. 00:58:23.690 --> 00:58:26.390 align:middle line:84% You didn't choose your race, class, gender. 00:58:26.390 --> 00:58:31.250 align:middle line:84% You didn't choose arguably most anything that makes you, right. 00:58:31.250 --> 00:58:33.320 align:middle line:84% And meditating upon that, at least in Buddhism, 00:58:33.320 --> 00:58:37.180 align:middle line:90% should change your perspective. 00:58:37.180 --> 00:58:39.880 align:middle line:84% And maybe even the notion that there is a you that's 00:58:39.880 --> 00:58:42.790 align:middle line:90% a substantive thing. 00:58:42.790 --> 00:58:47.420 align:middle line:84% We're constantly in this cycle of creation and regeneration, 00:58:47.420 --> 00:58:49.153 align:middle line:90% et cetera. 00:58:49.153 --> 00:58:51.320 align:middle line:84% There's a few elements of that which I can get into, 00:58:51.320 --> 00:58:53.510 align:middle line:84% but ultimately, I just want you to think about that. 00:58:53.510 --> 00:58:56.090 align:middle line:84% I invite you to contemplate these two ways of understanding. 00:58:56.090 --> 00:58:57.640 align:middle line:84% And this is just on one topic of what 00:58:57.640 --> 00:59:00.110 align:middle line:84% is the self in Eastern-Western philosophy, right. 00:59:00.110 --> 00:59:02.568 align:middle line:84% We could get into definitions and all the other stuff we've 00:59:02.568 --> 00:59:04.390 align:middle line:84% talked about, but does it make sense 00:59:04.390 --> 00:59:08.080 align:middle line:84% to think of there being a substantive self that's you. 00:59:08.080 --> 00:59:11.420 align:middle line:84% And if so, should we prioritize that? 00:59:11.420 --> 00:59:12.982 align:middle line:90% Because I'm two minds here. 00:59:12.982 --> 00:59:14.440 align:middle line:84% I think it does make sense to think 00:59:14.440 --> 00:59:18.520 align:middle line:84% of us being selves at least as some fiction that like, 00:59:18.520 --> 00:59:20.710 align:middle line:84% I'm connected with my thoughts and feelings 00:59:20.710 --> 00:59:24.065 align:middle line:84% and experiences in a way that I'm not with yours. 00:59:24.065 --> 00:59:25.940 align:middle line:84% And maybe I feel a certain ownership of that, 00:59:25.940 --> 00:59:27.170 align:middle line:84% or that's an identity thing for me. 00:59:27.170 --> 00:59:29.230 align:middle line:84% So it makes sense in some ways carve out reality 00:59:29.230 --> 00:59:31.720 align:middle line:84% that I'm an individual in a self that's different from you 00:59:31.720 --> 00:59:32.750 align:middle line:90% in some way. 00:59:32.750 --> 00:59:36.030 align:middle line:84% I think that's probably fair, but how important is 00:59:36.030 --> 00:59:36.530 align:middle line:90% That? 00:59:36.530 --> 00:59:38.530 align:middle line:84% And should that become the basis of our ethos 00:59:38.530 --> 00:59:40.180 align:middle line:84% that because of that, therefore, what? 00:59:40.180 --> 00:59:43.720 align:middle line:84% Should I live in a way that's out for myself 00:59:43.720 --> 00:59:45.620 align:middle line:84% and put my interests above yours? 00:59:45.620 --> 00:59:48.070 align:middle line:84% Even if there is a substantive or a non 00:59:48.070 --> 00:59:50.420 align:middle line:84% substantive, but a conceptual notion of self, 00:59:50.420 --> 00:59:53.920 align:middle line:84% is that important or might itself be an obstacle. 00:59:53.920 --> 00:59:57.010 align:middle line:84% So sure, I can think of myself as a self, but should I? 00:59:57.010 --> 00:59:59.380 align:middle line:90% What good comes from that? 00:59:59.380 --> 01:00:03.610 align:middle line:84% Is it possible all evil comes from that? 01:00:03.610 --> 01:00:05.590 align:middle line:84% And so I think there's a couple of questions 01:00:05.590 --> 01:00:07.673 align:middle line:84% I want to tease apart and then we'll move on here. 01:00:07.673 --> 01:00:08.852 align:middle line:90% But first is there a self? 01:00:08.852 --> 01:00:09.560 align:middle line:90% What is the self? 01:00:09.560 --> 01:00:10.280 align:middle line:90% That sort of thing. 01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:12.530 align:middle line:84% But probably the more important for me is the ethical. 01:00:12.530 --> 01:00:13.960 align:middle line:84% And like I said, there's always the irreducibility 01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:14.870 align:middle line:90% of the ethical. 01:00:14.870 --> 01:00:16.880 align:middle line:90% You can't get away from it. 01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:18.900 align:middle line:90% How do you understand that? 01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:22.940 align:middle line:84% And is it what role does it play in your understanding 01:00:22.940 --> 01:00:25.160 align:middle line:84% of the world, your relationship to others, 01:00:25.160 --> 01:00:28.580 align:middle line:90% your goals, your dreams. 01:00:28.580 --> 01:00:30.390 align:middle line:90% And so I think I'll end there. 01:00:30.390 --> 01:00:32.520 align:middle line:84% I have a million other things we can talk about, 01:00:32.520 --> 01:00:36.598 align:middle line:84% but I hope that comes up in the Q&A. So thanks. 01:00:36.598 --> 01:00:39.562 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 01:00:39.562 --> 01:00:40.550 align:middle line:90% 01:00:40.550 --> 01:00:45.620 align:middle line:84% And up next is filmmaker Ann Kaneko. 01:00:45.620 --> 01:00:47.690 align:middle line:90% Hi all. 01:00:47.690 --> 01:00:54.600 align:middle line:84% So I came here or my journey to being here in this room-- 01:00:54.600 --> 01:00:56.720 align:middle line:90% thank you all for having me-- 01:00:56.720 --> 01:01:00.873 align:middle line:84% is that I had a conversation with Robin about burrowing owls. 01:01:00.873 --> 01:01:04.160 align:middle line:90% 01:01:04.160 --> 01:01:05.760 align:middle line:90% I'm a filmmaker. 01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:08.720 align:middle line:84% I'm not going to talk about my medium 01:01:08.720 --> 01:01:12.980 align:middle line:84% as it relates to the individual, but rather 01:01:12.980 --> 01:01:19.050 align:middle line:84% what I've been following or what my interests, my questions 01:01:19.050 --> 01:01:22.480 align:middle line:84% have been as I've been making some films. 01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:28.350 align:middle line:84% So this is right over by the Ontario airport 01:01:28.350 --> 01:01:31.230 align:middle line:84% and we were talking about burrowing owls 01:01:31.230 --> 01:01:38.070 align:middle line:84% and how they relate to what's happening all around us. 01:01:38.070 --> 01:01:43.110 align:middle line:84% But I should say that this interest in land-- 01:01:43.110 --> 01:01:45.820 align:middle line:84% and I'll return to the burrowing owl later, 01:01:45.820 --> 01:01:50.700 align:middle line:84% but I should say that this interest in the land 01:01:50.700 --> 01:01:55.150 align:middle line:84% really comes from a film that I made before, 01:01:55.150 --> 01:01:56.980 align:middle line:84% which is called Manzanar, Diverted; 01:01:56.980 --> 01:01:58.380 align:middle line:90% When Water Becomes Dust. 01:01:58.380 --> 01:02:06.930 align:middle line:84% And it looks at the impacts that the city of Los Angeles 01:02:06.930 --> 01:02:12.670 align:middle line:84% has on Payahuunadu, or also known as the Owens Valley. 01:02:12.670 --> 01:02:14.460 align:middle line:90% It's the Eastern Sierras. 01:02:14.460 --> 01:02:19.140 align:middle line:84% And this kind of relationship and the impacts 01:02:19.140 --> 01:02:25.300 align:middle line:84% of colonial powers in this Valley. 01:02:25.300 --> 01:02:28.620 align:middle line:84% So Native Americans who were pushed out 01:02:28.620 --> 01:02:30.700 align:middle line:84% of the valley, the Numu and the [? Nua, ?] 01:02:30.700 --> 01:02:33.670 align:middle line:84% Japanese-Americans who are incarcerated there, 01:02:33.670 --> 01:02:38.890 align:middle line:84% and also ranchers and farmers who are pushed out of there. 01:02:38.890 --> 01:02:40.500 align:middle line:84% So you're like, well, what does this 01:02:40.500 --> 01:02:42.910 align:middle line:90% have to do with the individual? 01:02:42.910 --> 01:02:47.490 align:middle line:84% But I feel like Ryan's presentation 01:02:47.490 --> 01:02:51.730 align:middle line:84% is a great introduction to what I'm going to to about. 01:02:51.730 --> 01:02:54.850 align:middle line:84% But I think that through this film, 01:02:54.850 --> 01:03:03.010 align:middle line:84% I've really come to know many Native Americans. 01:03:03.010 --> 01:03:07.050 align:middle line:84% I've come to working with this relationship-- 01:03:07.050 --> 01:03:09.780 align:middle line:90% or working with this community. 01:03:09.780 --> 01:03:14.330 align:middle line:84% I've come to really appreciate so many values and so 01:03:14.330 --> 01:03:21.290 align:middle line:84% many approaches to life that I have learned from my Indigenous 01:03:21.290 --> 01:03:21.930 align:middle line:90% friends. 01:03:21.930 --> 01:03:27.130 align:middle line:84% And today, fittingly, is the day after Indigenous people-- 01:03:27.130 --> 01:03:30.620 align:middle line:90% Indigenous peoples' day. 01:03:30.620 --> 01:03:37.160 align:middle line:84% But I myself, as someone who is-- 01:03:37.160 --> 01:03:40.920 align:middle line:84% I'm Japanese-American, my family is Buddhist. 01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:47.300 align:middle line:84% I think I grew up with a real appreciation for nature. 01:03:47.300 --> 01:03:52.340 align:middle line:84% And also, perhaps this notion, this skepticism 01:03:52.340 --> 01:03:57.290 align:middle line:84% about the self since I was always 01:03:57.290 --> 01:04:00.180 align:middle line:90% taught not to put myself first. 01:04:00.180 --> 01:04:04.650 align:middle line:84% So although I'm not a Native-American person, 01:04:04.650 --> 01:04:09.200 align:middle line:84% I feel like I have an affinity to the values 01:04:09.200 --> 01:04:13.250 align:middle line:84% and the approach that so many Native Americans have 01:04:13.250 --> 01:04:20.810 align:middle line:84% about valuing our lands, that there is no separation of people 01:04:20.810 --> 01:04:22.200 align:middle line:90% with nature. 01:04:22.200 --> 01:04:24.240 align:middle line:90% They are our relatives. 01:04:24.240 --> 01:04:27.900 align:middle line:84% That animals are to be respected, 01:04:27.900 --> 01:04:31.710 align:middle line:84% and our relatives just as humans are. 01:04:31.710 --> 01:04:40.500 align:middle line:84% And that water and land, they're not resources to be extracted, 01:04:40.500 --> 01:04:44.730 align:middle line:84% but rather they are our life sources. 01:04:44.730 --> 01:04:47.850 align:middle line:84% They are what makes our world what it is. 01:04:47.850 --> 01:04:53.520 align:middle line:84% So rather than me say these things, 01:04:53.520 --> 01:04:59.510 align:middle line:84% I want to share a clip from one of the main characters 01:04:59.510 --> 01:05:00.330 align:middle line:90% from my film. 01:05:00.330 --> 01:05:04.970 align:middle line:84% Her name is Kathy Bancroft, and she is the tribal preservation 01:05:04.970 --> 01:05:10.950 align:middle line:84% officer in Lone Paine, and she's been working with-- 01:05:10.950 --> 01:05:18.780 align:middle line:84% she works as a cultural monitor on Patsiata, which is also 01:05:18.780 --> 01:05:19.980 align:middle line:90% known as the Owens Lake. 01:05:19.980 --> 01:05:21.970 align:middle line:90% And the Owens Lake no longer-- 01:05:21.970 --> 01:05:27.150 align:middle line:84% it was the third largest lake in California, but because 01:05:27.150 --> 01:05:32.755 align:middle line:84% of the Los Angeles aqueduct in 10 years, 01:05:32.755 --> 01:05:39.310 align:middle line:84% it was drained for the use of folks living in Los Angeles. 01:05:39.310 --> 01:05:41.140 align:middle line:84% And we're not talking about this recently. 01:05:41.140 --> 01:05:42.850 align:middle line:90% This is in the 1920s, right. 01:05:42.850 --> 01:05:51.780 align:middle line:84% So she's really devoted her life to preserving and remembering 01:05:51.780 --> 01:05:54.570 align:middle line:84% the stories that are on this land. 01:05:54.570 --> 01:05:57.556 align:middle line:84% So I want to just show this first clip. 01:05:57.556 --> 01:05:59.050 align:middle line:90% [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 01:05:59.050 --> 01:06:02.038 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 01:06:02.038 --> 01:06:06.030 align:middle line:90% 01:06:06.030 --> 01:06:08.940 align:middle line:84% - My people, my ancestors, my grandparents 01:06:08.940 --> 01:06:12.990 align:middle line:84% have lived on this lake for thousands of years. 01:06:12.990 --> 01:06:16.030 align:middle line:90% It means something to all of us. 01:06:16.030 --> 01:06:19.205 align:middle line:84% It's where a lot of our ancestors are buried. 01:06:19.205 --> 01:06:22.920 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:25.510 align:middle line:84% And this lake was called Patsiata, 01:06:25.510 --> 01:06:31.190 align:middle line:84% which is fed by a whole bunch of streams and creeks and rivers. 01:06:31.190 --> 01:06:34.740 align:middle line:90% 01:06:34.740 --> 01:06:37.500 align:middle line:84% They used to talk about how green 01:06:37.500 --> 01:06:42.540 align:middle line:84% and the water and the birds and the animals that were all here, 01:06:42.540 --> 01:06:44.110 align:middle line:90% all of the [INAUDIBLE]. 01:06:44.110 --> 01:06:46.493 align:middle line:84% This was a really source of survival. 01:06:46.493 --> 01:06:50.146 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 01:06:50.146 --> 01:06:51.990 align:middle line:90% 01:06:51.990 --> 01:06:55.140 align:middle line:84% In our recent history, it's important 01:06:55.140 --> 01:06:57.570 align:middle line:84% because of all the massacres that took place 01:06:57.570 --> 01:07:00.240 align:middle line:84% around it, the people that lost their lives, 01:07:00.240 --> 01:07:02.915 align:middle line:84% the bones of our ancestors are in that lake. 01:07:02.915 --> 01:07:07.104 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 01:07:07.104 --> 01:07:10.930 align:middle line:90% 01:07:10.930 --> 01:07:15.710 align:middle line:84% Water as it gathers from clear up north comes down, 01:07:15.710 --> 01:07:19.030 align:middle line:84% and as it's coming down, it's gathering life. 01:07:19.030 --> 01:07:21.500 align:middle line:84% So even though they've drained the water, 01:07:21.500 --> 01:07:24.930 align:middle line:84% all of that power and life is still in that lake. 01:07:24.930 --> 01:07:28.190 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 01:07:28.190 --> 01:07:32.950 align:middle line:90% 01:07:32.950 --> 01:07:36.470 align:middle line:84% A lot of people think, oh, we're out here for arrowheads, 01:07:36.470 --> 01:07:39.645 align:middle line:84% but everything is a cultural resource. 01:07:39.645 --> 01:07:44.020 align:middle line:90% 01:07:44.020 --> 01:07:51.028 align:middle line:84% The plants, the water, including all the artifacts that are left. 01:07:51.028 --> 01:07:52.960 align:middle line:90% [END PLAYBACK] 01:07:52.960 --> 01:07:58.270 align:middle line:84% So I just wanted to share that because I think just the way she 01:07:58.270 --> 01:08:04.490 align:middle line:84% talks about these things really belies her relationship 01:08:04.490 --> 01:08:09.380 align:middle line:84% relationality with nature and these-- 01:08:09.380 --> 01:08:12.052 align:middle line:90% the world around her. 01:08:12.052 --> 01:08:14.840 align:middle line:84% And in contrast, I want to show you another clip 01:08:14.840 --> 01:08:19.910 align:middle line:84% from the Aqueduct manager, the LA Aqueduct 01:08:19.910 --> 01:08:23.240 align:middle line:84% manager for the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power 01:08:23.240 --> 01:08:26.126 align:middle line:90% and show his-- 01:08:26.126 --> 01:08:30.180 align:middle line:84% the way he regards the lake and water. 01:08:30.180 --> 01:08:32.469 align:middle line:84% I feel like there's a real strong contrast. 01:08:32.469 --> 01:08:34.939 align:middle line:90% [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 01:08:34.939 --> 01:08:38.000 align:middle line:84% - When we have an event here, like we've 01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:42.140 align:middle line:84% had this last year next time, is there something 01:08:42.140 --> 01:08:44.390 align:middle line:84% that the city would do differently 01:08:44.390 --> 01:08:47.430 align:middle line:84% in terms of how to handle an abundance of water, 01:08:47.430 --> 01:08:48.979 align:middle line:90% too much water? 01:08:48.979 --> 01:08:51.770 align:middle line:84% - Because we had an extra about 250,000 acre foot that we 01:08:51.770 --> 01:08:52.950 align:middle line:90% didn't know what to do with. 01:08:52.950 --> 01:08:56.240 align:middle line:84% I couldn't send to LA because the aqueduct could only 01:08:56.240 --> 01:08:58.109 align:middle line:90% handle so much. 01:08:58.109 --> 01:09:02.220 align:middle line:84% So what was I going to do with that extra 250,000? 01:09:02.220 --> 01:09:04.770 align:middle line:84% It would have went to Owens Lake. 01:09:04.770 --> 01:09:06.460 align:middle line:84% People say, oh, well, that's great. 01:09:06.460 --> 01:09:07.870 align:middle line:90% Then you resolve an issue there. 01:09:07.870 --> 01:09:11.170 align:middle line:84% The problem with that is if all that water went to Owens Lake, 01:09:11.170 --> 01:09:13.810 align:middle line:84% it would have risen the water level in the lake, 01:09:13.810 --> 01:09:19.680 align:middle line:84% 7 foot would have flooded and damaged $1.2 billion 01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:20.890 align:middle line:90% of infrastructure. 01:09:20.890 --> 01:09:24.520 align:middle line:84% So there would have been at least a $200,000, $300,000, 01:09:24.520 --> 01:09:27.663 align:middle line:84% $400,000 of infrastructure that would have been damaged. 01:09:27.663 --> 01:09:32.318 align:middle line:90% 01:09:32.318 --> 01:09:37.719 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 01:09:37.719 --> 01:09:45.090 align:middle line:90% 01:09:45.090 --> 01:09:50.760 align:middle line:84% - So apparently if it can't go down the aqueduct and somebody 01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:55.410 align:middle line:84% turn their tap on and drink it, then they consider it a waste. 01:09:55.410 --> 01:09:58.500 align:middle line:84% - There is a linearity of approach 01:09:58.500 --> 01:10:01.380 align:middle line:90% when you work with engineers. 01:10:01.380 --> 01:10:06.280 align:middle line:84% I personally at one point said to Mr. Yannotta, stop, 01:10:06.280 --> 01:10:08.650 align:middle line:84% let's think about the Owens Valley. 01:10:08.650 --> 01:10:11.220 align:middle line:90% It's like a big basin. 01:10:11.220 --> 01:10:15.250 align:middle line:90% It could be your recharge basin. 01:10:15.250 --> 01:10:18.480 align:middle line:84% It could be where you keep the water underground 01:10:18.480 --> 01:10:20.340 align:middle line:90% like a reservoir. 01:10:20.340 --> 01:10:26.010 align:middle line:84% And then when you need it, at a reasonable rate, you can use it. 01:10:26.010 --> 01:10:29.730 align:middle line:84% So it's transforming it from being like this industrial site 01:10:29.730 --> 01:10:33.960 align:middle line:84% where you put wells that's mining to working 01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:37.746 align:middle line:90% collaboratively with nature. 01:10:37.746 --> 01:10:40.620 align:middle line:90% [END PLAYBACK] 01:10:40.620 --> 01:10:45.660 align:middle line:84% So I feel like it's obvious from these two clips. 01:10:45.660 --> 01:10:48.600 align:middle line:84% It's an illustration of what Ryan 01:10:48.600 --> 01:10:51.760 align:middle line:84% was talking about in terms of the individual 01:10:51.760 --> 01:10:58.350 align:middle line:90% and how in Western societies-- 01:10:58.350 --> 01:11:03.010 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think we all accept this notion that the world is 01:11:03.010 --> 01:11:08.050 align:middle line:84% for our taking, that we can extract as much water 01:11:08.050 --> 01:11:17.240 align:middle line:84% as we want, that we can continue to pipe these things. 01:11:17.240 --> 01:11:20.210 align:middle line:84% But we're faced with climate change right now. 01:11:20.210 --> 01:11:22.670 align:middle line:84% And so I feel like all of these-- 01:11:22.670 --> 01:11:28.000 align:middle line:84% this behavior that's brought us to this moment 01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:31.780 align:middle line:84% is really, if we choose to face it, 01:11:31.780 --> 01:11:35.350 align:middle line:84% I feel like we need to take responsibility for what 01:11:35.350 --> 01:11:39.636 align:middle line:90% our actions have created. 01:11:39.636 --> 01:11:44.710 align:middle line:84% And so I think that part of the Indigenous ethos 01:11:44.710 --> 01:11:48.380 align:middle line:84% is really that we don't take more than we need, 01:11:48.380 --> 01:11:55.256 align:middle line:84% that we value everything as if it is part of us. 01:11:55.256 --> 01:11:59.100 align:middle line:84% And so coming back to the burrowing owls. 01:11:59.100 --> 01:12:02.450 align:middle line:84% So these burrowing owls are right next 01:12:02.450 --> 01:12:03.810 align:middle line:90% to the Ontario airport. 01:12:03.810 --> 01:12:08.660 align:middle line:84% And it's there-- its habitat is prime habitat area. 01:12:08.660 --> 01:12:12.170 align:middle line:84% But this area is going to be paved over 01:12:12.170 --> 01:12:17.880 align:middle line:84% to create a hotel and mall and the whole inland empire. 01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:18.890 align:middle line:90% I mean, I went to-- 01:12:18.890 --> 01:12:23.000 align:middle line:84% I actually came to Chino, to 性视界 01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:25.260 align:middle line:84% when I was in high school and took trigonometry. 01:12:25.260 --> 01:12:28.200 align:middle line:84% So it's like I've seen this place change. 01:12:28.200 --> 01:12:31.850 align:middle line:84% And now what-- basically, what we see everywhere 01:12:31.850 --> 01:12:35.430 align:middle line:90% are warehouses and development. 01:12:35.430 --> 01:12:40.590 align:middle line:84% And so again, it's this consumption, 01:12:40.590 --> 01:12:47.570 align:middle line:84% this desire for need and things that drives this engine 01:12:47.570 --> 01:12:50.490 align:middle line:90% to keep taking from our world. 01:12:50.490 --> 01:12:56.040 align:middle line:84% So this is basically what I've brought up 01:12:56.040 --> 01:13:01.410 align:middle line:84% as a consideration about the individual. 01:13:01.410 --> 01:13:04.530 align:middle line:90% And just a little plug. 01:13:04.530 --> 01:13:05.310 align:middle line:90% Next slide. 01:13:05.310 --> 01:13:08.370 align:middle line:84% If you want to come to see the film, 01:13:08.370 --> 01:13:13.000 align:middle line:84% it's showing on Saturday at UC Riverside at 4:30. 01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:17.190 align:middle line:84% And one of the composers is actually 01:13:17.190 --> 01:13:22.140 align:middle line:84% going to be there to play the array and beta, which 01:13:22.140 --> 01:13:23.860 align:middle line:90% is used in the film. 01:13:23.860 --> 01:13:29.470 align:middle line:84% And we're also launching a little AR/VR 360 piece with it. 01:13:29.470 --> 01:13:31.830 align:middle line:90% But anyway. 01:13:31.830 --> 01:13:32.620 align:middle line:90% Beautiful. 01:13:32.620 --> 01:13:33.800 align:middle line:90% Thank you so much. 01:13:33.800 --> 01:13:36.072 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 01:13:36.072 --> 01:13:39.390 align:middle line:90% 01:13:39.390 --> 01:13:40.030 align:middle line:90% All right. 01:13:40.030 --> 01:13:43.410 align:middle line:84% Last lap and then Sergio will speak 01:13:43.410 --> 01:13:45.000 align:middle line:84% and then it's going to be-- you'll 01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:49.950 align:middle line:84% be up for Q&A. Let's give you a minute. 01:13:49.950 --> 01:13:51.450 align:middle line:90% All right. 01:13:51.450 --> 01:13:53.740 align:middle line:90% All right, Sergio, take us home. 01:13:53.740 --> 01:13:56.180 align:middle line:90% OK. 01:13:56.180 --> 01:13:58.810 align:middle line:90% So there it is. 01:13:58.810 --> 01:14:01.720 align:middle line:84% So that's the idea that I wanted to present to you. 01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:04.070 align:middle line:84% Nothing that I will say to you is new. 01:14:04.070 --> 01:14:07.880 align:middle line:84% It's just maybe think of them as reminders of what we could do. 01:14:07.880 --> 01:14:13.390 align:middle line:84% And I thought about things that we could do in-- 01:14:13.390 --> 01:14:15.500 align:middle line:90% as a more tangible way. 01:14:15.500 --> 01:14:17.240 align:middle line:84% So I want to give you things at the end. 01:14:17.240 --> 01:14:21.250 align:middle line:84% Anyway, the point that I will be raising is that we can disrupt 01:14:21.250 --> 01:14:24.850 align:middle line:84% or maybe to say it this way, I am affirming 01:14:24.850 --> 01:14:27.760 align:middle line:84% what others are already doing in disrupting 01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:30.700 align:middle line:90% this supremacy of the self. 01:14:30.700 --> 01:14:33.310 align:middle line:84% And there's actually a name for it. 01:14:33.310 --> 01:14:37.690 align:middle line:84% In sociology, we have this idea called individualism 01:14:37.690 --> 01:14:42.010 align:middle line:84% that is considered one of the most unique American values. 01:14:42.010 --> 01:14:44.110 align:middle line:84% It doesn't mean that other societies do not 01:14:44.110 --> 01:14:45.410 align:middle line:90% share that value. 01:14:45.410 --> 01:14:52.750 align:middle line:84% It's-- thanks to satellite TV and the internet, social media, 01:14:52.750 --> 01:14:57.310 align:middle line:84% relatively cheap travel cultures diffuse and a lot of the things 01:14:57.310 --> 01:15:00.710 align:middle line:84% that are American, quote-unquote, American, 01:15:00.710 --> 01:15:03.830 align:middle line:84% are you will see them in every other society and vice versa. 01:15:03.830 --> 01:15:06.370 align:middle line:90% So there is nothing-- 01:15:06.370 --> 01:15:08.680 align:middle line:84% it's not like the United States monopolizes 01:15:08.680 --> 01:15:11.380 align:middle line:84% this value, this cultural value, but we're 01:15:11.380 --> 01:15:13.810 align:middle line:90% uniquely known for that. 01:15:13.810 --> 01:15:17.950 align:middle line:84% Anyway, so individualism is this-- 01:15:17.950 --> 01:15:21.220 align:middle line:84% first of all, I want to talk about the sociologists that 01:15:21.220 --> 01:15:25.810 align:middle line:84% created this model who he called the 10 primary Americans-- 01:15:25.810 --> 01:15:27.740 align:middle line:90% 10 primary American values. 01:15:27.740 --> 01:15:32.090 align:middle line:84% And at the top of the hierarchy was individualism. 01:15:32.090 --> 01:15:34.390 align:middle line:84% So it's this idea, and I'm quoting 01:15:34.390 --> 01:15:38.960 align:middle line:84% another sociologist, Peter Callero, in his book, 2013. 01:15:38.960 --> 01:15:42.310 align:middle line:84% It was actually called The Myth of Individualism 01:15:42.310 --> 01:15:45.520 align:middle line:90% in that what he says is that-- 01:15:45.520 --> 01:15:48.760 align:middle line:84% so by individualism, we mean this worldview, 01:15:48.760 --> 01:15:51.860 align:middle line:84% where first of all, we come-- we come 01:15:51.860 --> 01:15:54.920 align:middle line:84% to accept that every individual has 01:15:54.920 --> 01:15:59.550 align:middle line:84% 100% autonomy as a natural occurrence, 01:15:59.550 --> 01:16:03.170 align:middle line:84% very much like, we have tissue, we 01:16:03.170 --> 01:16:05.730 align:middle line:84% have two lungs and a heart the same way. 01:16:05.730 --> 01:16:08.060 align:middle line:90% Autonomy is just a given. 01:16:08.060 --> 01:16:13.160 align:middle line:84% With that, we also have the power to-- 01:16:13.160 --> 01:16:15.630 align:middle line:84% because we're independent entities, 01:16:15.630 --> 01:16:20.900 align:middle line:84% we're separated from society is the belief we're able to then do 01:16:20.900 --> 01:16:23.810 align:middle line:84% whatever we want as separate entities 01:16:23.810 --> 01:16:27.540 align:middle line:84% if we gain enough individual power to do what we want. 01:16:27.540 --> 01:16:30.710 align:middle line:84% So I was thinking about that old thought 01:16:30.710 --> 01:16:36.170 align:middle line:84% where someone can be thinking, I have a 1956 gas guzzler 01:16:36.170 --> 01:16:39.710 align:middle line:84% and I don't really care about these-- the consequences 01:16:39.710 --> 01:16:41.580 align:middle line:90% of my driving the gas prices. 01:16:41.580 --> 01:16:45.000 align:middle line:84% After all, I have the resources to do what I want. 01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:49.480 align:middle line:84% So that's one of what I call dimensions of individualism, 01:16:49.480 --> 01:16:52.920 align:middle line:84% which is, again a cultural value that we 01:16:52.920 --> 01:16:55.830 align:middle line:84% in sociology, like our students, to take-- to see 01:16:55.830 --> 01:16:58.470 align:middle line:90% that it's part of our culture. 01:16:58.470 --> 01:17:00.220 align:middle line:84% And by the way, when I say value, 01:17:00.220 --> 01:17:03.030 align:middle line:84% I'm referring to ideas that are socially 01:17:03.030 --> 01:17:07.270 align:middle line:84% shared in a society with respect to what is good, what is bad, 01:17:07.270 --> 01:17:10.750 align:middle line:84% what is desirable, what is not, what is moral, what is not. 01:17:10.750 --> 01:17:12.250 align:middle line:84% So that's where I'm going with this. 01:17:12.250 --> 01:17:13.990 align:middle line:90% So it's a socially shared idea. 01:17:13.990 --> 01:17:15.460 align:middle line:90% It's not like doing anything. 01:17:15.460 --> 01:17:20.530 align:middle line:84% And so we have to enact in ways and practices those values. 01:17:20.530 --> 01:17:24.780 align:middle line:84% And so the example that I gave you, driving a gas guzzler 01:17:24.780 --> 01:17:28.210 align:middle line:84% is an example of how I express my individuality. 01:17:28.210 --> 01:17:30.810 align:middle line:84% And so the other thing about this 01:17:30.810 --> 01:17:34.560 align:middle line:84% is that the other dimension is it's 01:17:34.560 --> 01:17:38.430 align:middle line:84% actually like a political ideology, 01:17:38.430 --> 01:17:42.060 align:middle line:84% where those people that have more wealth 01:17:42.060 --> 01:17:43.870 align:middle line:90% and more power in our society-- 01:17:43.870 --> 01:17:46.270 align:middle line:84% well, specifically in our society, 01:17:46.270 --> 01:17:50.320 align:middle line:84% it isn't their best interest for all of us to 100% 01:17:50.320 --> 01:17:53.560 align:middle line:84% espouse and embrace that value of individuality 01:17:53.560 --> 01:17:55.900 align:middle line:84% or individualism, because they're 01:17:55.900 --> 01:17:58.150 align:middle line:84% the ones that are going to benefit from the increasing 01:17:58.150 --> 01:17:59.030 align:middle line:90% inequality. 01:17:59.030 --> 01:18:02.360 align:middle line:84% And, for example, think that how people 01:18:02.360 --> 01:18:05.620 align:middle line:84% in middle and working classes will 01:18:05.620 --> 01:18:09.380 align:middle line:84% argue about public institutions are corrupt. 01:18:09.380 --> 01:18:11.180 align:middle line:90% We don't need social security. 01:18:11.180 --> 01:18:13.130 align:middle line:90% We don't need public education. 01:18:13.130 --> 01:18:16.960 align:middle line:84% Let's just shrink it or why don't we just make everything 01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:22.120 align:middle line:84% a charter school, when in fact, 99% of the population 01:18:22.120 --> 01:18:24.940 align:middle line:84% benefits from public institutions, specifically 01:18:24.940 --> 01:18:26.210 align:middle line:90% public education. 01:18:26.210 --> 01:18:30.470 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't have been able to help out my daughter finish-- 01:18:30.470 --> 01:18:34.060 align:middle line:84% now, she's beginning the master's program at AUC 01:18:34.060 --> 01:18:36.350 align:middle line:84% if we didn't have public education. 01:18:36.350 --> 01:18:38.960 align:middle line:84% So of course, who benefits from public education? 01:18:38.960 --> 01:18:41.740 align:middle line:84% The rest of us, except for that small group of people. 01:18:41.740 --> 01:18:44.620 align:middle line:84% Anyway, so they benefit from the rest 01:18:44.620 --> 01:18:48.130 align:middle line:84% of us accepting that idea, which Karl Marx called 01:18:48.130 --> 01:18:49.460 align:middle line:90% false consciousness. 01:18:49.460 --> 01:18:51.290 align:middle line:84% Forgive me if I'm using this name. 01:18:51.290 --> 01:18:55.120 align:middle line:84% I know there's a lot, especially these days mentioning this name 01:18:55.120 --> 01:18:56.530 align:middle line:90% is dangerous. 01:18:56.530 --> 01:18:59.930 align:middle line:84% So anyway, so Karl Marx called false consciousness, 01:18:59.930 --> 01:19:03.740 align:middle line:84% this awareness whereby the workers, he would say, 01:19:03.740 --> 01:19:06.680 align:middle line:84% aligned with the interests of those in-- 01:19:06.680 --> 01:19:07.970 align:middle line:90% with capitalists. 01:19:07.970 --> 01:19:10.990 align:middle line:84% And so, for example, they would refuse to join unions 01:19:10.990 --> 01:19:13.250 align:middle line:90% because unions were corrupt. 01:19:13.250 --> 01:19:15.310 align:middle line:84% They take too much money away from you. 01:19:15.310 --> 01:19:16.582 align:middle line:90% They're-- I don't know. 01:19:16.582 --> 01:19:18.560 align:middle line:90% They're communists, right. 01:19:18.560 --> 01:19:21.490 align:middle line:84% So the same way that false consciousness 01:19:21.490 --> 01:19:23.000 align:middle line:90% seeps through society. 01:19:23.000 --> 01:19:26.650 align:middle line:84% So I argue that individualism, that other dimension 01:19:26.650 --> 01:19:29.950 align:middle line:84% of individual being not just a value, but also 01:19:29.950 --> 01:19:33.130 align:middle line:84% the ideology by which the rest of us 01:19:33.130 --> 01:19:36.340 align:middle line:84% don't really reach out to others to seek out justice 01:19:36.340 --> 01:19:40.420 align:middle line:84% that actually touches all of us in our society. 01:19:40.420 --> 01:19:44.450 align:middle line:84% Now, I want to just briefly talk about two important sociologists 01:19:44.450 --> 01:19:48.440 align:middle line:84% that I thought I really liked, their ideas that relate to how 01:19:48.440 --> 01:19:50.820 align:middle line:90% the self works within society. 01:19:50.820 --> 01:19:53.490 align:middle line:84% The first person is George Herbert Mead, 01:19:53.490 --> 01:19:54.950 align:middle line:90% who uses the metaphor. 01:19:54.950 --> 01:19:58.110 align:middle line:84% And I'll mention the other name when I get there. 01:19:58.110 --> 01:20:01.370 align:middle line:84% And so George Herbert Mead describes the process 01:20:01.370 --> 01:20:04.700 align:middle line:84% of how the self concept or the self 01:20:04.700 --> 01:20:09.540 align:middle line:84% individuality, how the individual rises from society, 01:20:09.540 --> 01:20:16.010 align:middle line:84% how we develop the ideas and thoughts and emotions that we 01:20:16.010 --> 01:20:20.220 align:middle line:84% have about who we are as men and women and so on. 01:20:20.220 --> 01:20:24.320 align:middle line:84% And so he uses this metaphor of the pretending 01:20:24.320 --> 01:20:26.400 align:middle line:90% to be others, role playing. 01:20:26.400 --> 01:20:30.170 align:middle line:84% And then he employed this kind of a framework 01:20:30.170 --> 01:20:34.290 align:middle line:84% where it goes from one stage to the other as we evolve our self. 01:20:34.290 --> 01:20:37.310 align:middle line:90% So we begin with imitation. 01:20:37.310 --> 01:20:41.090 align:middle line:84% Roughly, it ends around our toddler years, 01:20:41.090 --> 01:20:43.260 align:middle line:84% where we're just simply mimicking 01:20:43.260 --> 01:20:47.490 align:middle line:84% what's available to us in our environment 01:20:47.490 --> 01:20:50.670 align:middle line:84% without really thinking or reflecting about upon what it 01:20:50.670 --> 01:20:53.470 align:middle line:90% is that we're pretending to be. 01:20:53.470 --> 01:20:56.970 align:middle line:84% So I was thinking about, if you're a toddler 01:20:56.970 --> 01:20:59.880 align:middle line:84% and you're pretending to be a superhero 01:20:59.880 --> 01:21:01.560 align:middle line:84% and because you're not reflecting 01:21:01.560 --> 01:21:04.570 align:middle line:84% about the consequences of being a superhero, 01:21:04.570 --> 01:21:07.780 align:middle line:84% you say, I'm Superman and you jump off the window. 01:21:07.780 --> 01:21:08.890 align:middle line:90% That's the end of you. 01:21:08.890 --> 01:21:10.530 align:middle line:90% You know that, right? 01:21:10.530 --> 01:21:14.760 align:middle line:84% Anyway, so as toddlers, we don't reflect 01:21:14.760 --> 01:21:16.780 align:middle line:90% upon we don't have empathy. 01:21:16.780 --> 01:21:23.250 align:middle line:84% And so as we evolve this self, we enter the stage of the play 01:21:23.250 --> 01:21:26.910 align:middle line:84% stage in which he would say, this is roughly around the years 01:21:26.910 --> 01:21:29.430 align:middle line:90% when we began school. 01:21:29.430 --> 01:21:30.790 align:middle line:90% And then it goes on. 01:21:30.790 --> 01:21:32.490 align:middle line:84% And basically, what happens here is 01:21:32.490 --> 01:21:36.040 align:middle line:84% that we now are reflecting on the roles that we're playing. 01:21:36.040 --> 01:21:39.580 align:middle line:84% By that, he means we're beginning to practice empathy. 01:21:39.580 --> 01:21:42.310 align:middle line:84% That is, I take a journey from me 01:21:42.310 --> 01:21:45.880 align:middle line:84% to you, when we're communicating. 01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:51.317 align:middle line:84% And in the sense that I am getting into your shoes, I am-- 01:21:51.317 --> 01:21:55.580 align:middle line:84% you know the phrase I want to know where you're coming from. 01:21:55.580 --> 01:21:57.230 align:middle line:90% That's what he's talking about. 01:21:57.230 --> 01:21:59.720 align:middle line:84% That's the empathy that we're practicing. 01:21:59.720 --> 01:22:02.480 align:middle line:84% And so when we're taking that journey from me to you, 01:22:02.480 --> 01:22:04.430 align:middle line:84% something really magical happens. 01:22:04.430 --> 01:22:06.950 align:middle line:90% We're bringing society into us. 01:22:06.950 --> 01:22:10.820 align:middle line:84% So in other words, the pronoun Americans, 01:22:10.820 --> 01:22:13.820 align:middle line:84% whether you claim it with shame or with pride, 01:22:13.820 --> 01:22:14.570 align:middle line:90% it doesn't matter. 01:22:14.570 --> 01:22:17.030 align:middle line:84% But when you say I'm American, that's it. 01:22:17.030 --> 01:22:19.040 align:middle line:90% You have internalized. 01:22:19.040 --> 01:22:21.623 align:middle line:84% And we can skip that-- the next screen, the screen, 01:22:21.623 --> 01:22:22.790 align:middle line:90% and just go to the next one. 01:22:22.790 --> 01:22:24.010 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 01:22:24.010 --> 01:22:26.930 align:middle line:84% So when we internalize that society, 01:22:26.930 --> 01:22:31.330 align:middle line:84% it's through that process, the imitation, play and game. 01:22:31.330 --> 01:22:35.920 align:middle line:84% A game is the development, the final development of who we are. 01:22:35.920 --> 01:22:38.170 align:middle line:84% But the point-- the most important point 01:22:38.170 --> 01:22:40.480 align:middle line:84% before I get to C. Wright Mills is 01:22:40.480 --> 01:22:45.160 align:middle line:84% that when we develop our thoughts and emotions about who 01:22:45.160 --> 01:22:48.190 align:middle line:84% we are and we are reflecting society 01:22:48.190 --> 01:22:50.090 align:middle line:84% because we're taking that journey, 01:22:50.090 --> 01:22:54.520 align:middle line:84% remember, through the practice of empathy, what happens 01:22:54.520 --> 01:22:56.810 align:middle line:90% is there is no separation. 01:22:56.810 --> 01:22:58.600 align:middle line:84% It makes no sense to think of the self 01:22:58.600 --> 01:23:03.040 align:middle line:84% as being separate from society, because we continually 01:23:03.040 --> 01:23:05.260 align:middle line:84% seek out the nurturing of society 01:23:05.260 --> 01:23:08.720 align:middle line:84% to be meaningful, whether you're evil or good. 01:23:08.720 --> 01:23:11.050 align:middle line:84% And most of us are in between, I guess. 01:23:11.050 --> 01:23:13.990 align:middle line:84% And so yeah, so that's what's important about understanding 01:23:13.990 --> 01:23:16.900 align:middle line:84% the self as what I think one of the emails 01:23:16.900 --> 01:23:20.030 align:middle line:84% I said melting the self and society. 01:23:20.030 --> 01:23:22.840 align:middle line:84% So here comes this other guy, this character 01:23:22.840 --> 01:23:26.140 align:middle line:84% C. Wright Mills and sociology was a very interesting 01:23:26.140 --> 01:23:27.650 align:middle line:90% for many different reasons. 01:23:27.650 --> 01:23:30.350 align:middle line:84% But one of them is that he was writing in the late 50s, 01:23:30.350 --> 01:23:31.900 align:middle line:90% early 60s times-- 01:23:31.900 --> 01:23:38.240 align:middle line:84% the times of high turmoil, political, young people 01:23:38.240 --> 01:23:41.670 align:middle line:84% experimenting with drugs and anti-war. 01:23:41.670 --> 01:23:43.490 align:middle line:90% You can see it. 01:23:43.490 --> 01:23:45.080 align:middle line:90% It's all over the media. 01:23:45.080 --> 01:23:48.750 align:middle line:84% Whenever you want to know about the 60s, you watch a movie. 01:23:48.750 --> 01:23:52.350 align:middle line:84% And so anyway, so when he was writing this at the time, 01:23:52.350 --> 01:23:54.950 align:middle line:84% he was really interested in making sociology 01:23:54.950 --> 01:23:59.420 align:middle line:84% meaningful for the common people because he thought, well, 01:23:59.420 --> 01:24:03.200 align:middle line:84% if I can show people that they can think sociologically, maybe 01:24:03.200 --> 01:24:07.640 align:middle line:84% they can start reaching out and using the ideas in sociology 01:24:07.640 --> 01:24:09.210 align:middle line:90% to seek out justice. 01:24:09.210 --> 01:24:11.210 align:middle line:84% And what he was talking about is that-- 01:24:11.210 --> 01:24:15.000 align:middle line:84% and he actually gave the name to this idea, 01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:17.280 align:middle line:90% the sociological imagination. 01:24:17.280 --> 01:24:19.800 align:middle line:90% And by that, he meant so-- 01:24:19.800 --> 01:24:21.510 align:middle line:84% and he used these two dimensions, 01:24:21.510 --> 01:24:23.970 align:middle line:84% on the one hand, the private issues. 01:24:23.970 --> 01:24:28.310 align:middle line:84% So all the circumstances and situations 01:24:28.310 --> 01:24:31.770 align:middle line:84% in which you find that affect you in a very personal way, 01:24:31.770 --> 01:24:32.270 align:middle line:90% right. 01:24:32.270 --> 01:24:34.430 align:middle line:84% Whether they're good or bad; graduating 01:24:34.430 --> 01:24:35.950 align:middle line:90% with a bachelor's degree. 01:24:35.950 --> 01:24:38.080 align:middle line:84% Well, that's a very personal thing. 01:24:38.080 --> 01:24:40.110 align:middle line:84% And you have accomplished something, so you 01:24:40.110 --> 01:24:41.440 align:middle line:90% should be proud, of course. 01:24:41.440 --> 01:24:45.790 align:middle line:84% Or on the other hand, if you're in a hardship situation, like, 01:24:45.790 --> 01:24:49.930 align:middle line:84% for example, being unemployed, when I was preparing for this, 01:24:49.930 --> 01:24:52.290 align:middle line:84% I was thinking, so what would be the first thing that 01:24:52.290 --> 01:24:56.670 align:middle line:84% would come to my mind if I was to experience-- these are not 01:24:56.670 --> 01:24:57.690 align:middle line:90% wood, huh? 01:24:57.690 --> 01:25:01.350 align:middle line:84% Oh boy, if I was unemployed and you know what it would be? 01:25:01.350 --> 01:25:04.290 align:middle line:84% Bank account because my bank account 01:25:04.290 --> 01:25:07.270 align:middle line:84% would determine where I'm going to be living next month. 01:25:07.270 --> 01:25:08.800 align:middle line:90% And so yeah. 01:25:08.800 --> 01:25:11.850 align:middle line:84% So the private personal issues and of course, they 01:25:11.850 --> 01:25:15.970 align:middle line:84% will affect the most intimate spaces in my life, 01:25:15.970 --> 01:25:18.280 align:middle line:84% including what we call the significant others. 01:25:18.280 --> 01:25:21.670 align:middle line:84% And then the other dimension is the public issues, 01:25:21.670 --> 01:25:25.600 align:middle line:84% which are the large-scale problems that affect most of us, 01:25:25.600 --> 01:25:28.682 align:middle line:90% if not all of us in society. 01:25:28.682 --> 01:25:32.940 align:middle line:84% But the trick here is that when we frame public issues, 01:25:32.940 --> 01:25:36.350 align:middle line:84% they feel so distant, especially if you have not experienced, 01:25:36.350 --> 01:25:37.880 align:middle line:90% for example, unemployment. 01:25:37.880 --> 01:25:38.950 align:middle line:90% Like, if you say-- 01:25:38.950 --> 01:25:43.190 align:middle line:84% you see the word the national unemployment rate. 01:25:43.190 --> 01:25:46.750 align:middle line:84% It feels so distant, the idea that I was saying 01:25:46.750 --> 01:25:49.175 align:middle line:90% about empathy, crickets, right? 01:25:49.175 --> 01:25:50.600 align:middle line:90% You can't really be empathetic. 01:25:50.600 --> 01:25:53.470 align:middle line:84% You can't get into the shoes of the unemployment rate. 01:25:53.470 --> 01:25:54.470 align:middle line:90% You know what I mean? 01:25:54.470 --> 01:25:57.370 align:middle line:84% And so that connection, what C. Wright Mills 01:25:57.370 --> 01:26:01.100 align:middle line:84% was saying, if we can make that connection between the self, 01:26:01.100 --> 01:26:05.260 align:middle line:84% the intersection between the self and society, and that's 01:26:05.260 --> 01:26:08.450 align:middle line:84% what he meant by the sociological imagination, 01:26:08.450 --> 01:26:12.010 align:middle line:84% the ability that we can gain to understand that-- to understand 01:26:12.010 --> 01:26:15.700 align:middle line:84% that my private issues are affected by what goes on 01:26:15.700 --> 01:26:17.990 align:middle line:90% in my social environment. 01:26:17.990 --> 01:26:19.610 align:middle line:90% So in effect, I'm not alone. 01:26:19.610 --> 01:26:23.470 align:middle line:84% Whether I'm unemployed, I am housing insecure, 01:26:23.470 --> 01:26:25.550 align:middle line:90% whether I'm being discriminated. 01:26:25.550 --> 01:26:27.910 align:middle line:90% I love that-- the woman in-- 01:26:27.910 --> 01:26:30.620 align:middle line:84% the Black woman in the white background, 01:26:30.620 --> 01:26:33.620 align:middle line:84% because the first thing that came to my mind was she's 01:26:33.620 --> 01:26:38.010 align:middle line:84% defying the institutions of society that were telling her. 01:26:38.010 --> 01:26:40.050 align:middle line:84% I'm not sure when she was doing her work. 01:26:40.050 --> 01:26:40.800 align:middle line:90% Was it in the 50s? 01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:41.800 align:middle line:90% No, that was [INAUDIBLE] 01:26:41.800 --> 01:26:42.620 align:middle line:90% That's the 80s. 01:26:42.620 --> 01:26:43.500 align:middle line:90% The 80s. 01:26:43.500 --> 01:26:46.110 align:middle line:84% But still, the discrimination continues. 01:26:46.110 --> 01:26:50.660 align:middle line:84% In the 50s and 60s, as you know, discrimination was legal. 01:26:50.660 --> 01:26:52.050 align:middle line:90% And so I can imagine that. 01:26:52.050 --> 01:26:56.030 align:middle line:84% But anyway, so this ability to see the individual 01:26:56.030 --> 01:26:58.670 align:middle line:84% within-- in the context of society 01:26:58.670 --> 01:27:00.540 align:middle line:84% and then we can go to the next screen. 01:27:00.540 --> 01:27:02.250 align:middle line:84% So this is what I want to give you. 01:27:02.250 --> 01:27:04.710 align:middle line:84% And again, this is not an original idea. 01:27:04.710 --> 01:27:08.330 align:middle line:84% I'm just affirming what millions of people out there, maybe you 01:27:08.330 --> 01:27:10.310 align:middle line:84% tell yourself you're doing it already 01:27:10.310 --> 01:27:16.470 align:middle line:84% is to gain or to regain and to raise the social consciousness, 01:27:16.470 --> 01:27:21.090 align:middle line:84% to think about my issues within the larger context. 01:27:21.090 --> 01:27:26.930 align:middle line:84% And so two things, two practical things, practicing empathy-- 01:27:26.930 --> 01:27:29.390 align:middle line:84% and something I forgot to say earlier. 01:27:29.390 --> 01:27:32.240 align:middle line:84% Just because we do really good at empathy, 01:27:32.240 --> 01:27:36.428 align:middle line:84% when we're communicating, because that's the whole process 01:27:36.428 --> 01:27:40.280 align:middle line:84% that George Herbert Mead was saying about gaining the ability 01:27:40.280 --> 01:27:44.600 align:middle line:84% to see myself in society, we practice empathy 01:27:44.600 --> 01:27:47.330 align:middle line:84% when we communicate with one another. 01:27:47.330 --> 01:27:48.930 align:middle line:90% And most people are really good. 01:27:48.930 --> 01:27:50.280 align:middle line:90% They're good listeners. 01:27:50.280 --> 01:27:53.902 align:middle line:84% They know where you're coming from. 01:27:53.902 --> 01:27:57.330 align:middle line:84% Just because we are very adept at empathy, 01:27:57.330 --> 01:28:00.710 align:middle line:84% it doesn't mean that we embed empathy as part of-- 01:28:00.710 --> 01:28:02.780 align:middle line:90% I don't know-- lifestyle. 01:28:02.780 --> 01:28:05.040 align:middle line:84% Thinking about others, caring for others. 01:28:05.040 --> 01:28:06.720 align:middle line:90% So this is what I'm saying. 01:28:06.720 --> 01:28:09.660 align:middle line:84% If we could practice empathy and very practical ways. 01:28:09.660 --> 01:28:11.930 align:middle line:84% So here's my example that I thought-- 01:28:11.930 --> 01:28:16.610 align:middle line:84% I think it was until Saturday, health care workers 01:28:16.610 --> 01:28:19.230 align:middle line:84% working for Kaiser were on strike. 01:28:19.230 --> 01:28:21.230 align:middle line:84% And so one thought that came to my mind 01:28:21.230 --> 01:28:24.720 align:middle line:84% was, I can imagine people picking up their cell and going, 01:28:24.720 --> 01:28:28.260 align:middle line:84% damn, one of those days is my appointment. 01:28:28.260 --> 01:28:31.890 align:middle line:84% These people are disrupting how inconvenient this is. 01:28:31.890 --> 01:28:35.380 align:middle line:84% That's precisely the lack of empathy that I'm talking about. 01:28:35.380 --> 01:28:39.760 align:middle line:84% And so if I can say to myself and I ask other people, 01:28:39.760 --> 01:28:41.610 align:middle line:84% well, I want to know firsthand, do 01:28:41.610 --> 01:28:44.550 align:middle line:84% I know someone that can explain to me why 01:28:44.550 --> 01:28:48.640 align:middle line:84% you take that radical step and going and going on strike? 01:28:48.640 --> 01:28:51.510 align:middle line:84% Because believe me, in the United States, going on-- 01:28:51.510 --> 01:28:54.750 align:middle line:84% joining a strike, being a member of a union 01:28:54.750 --> 01:28:58.240 align:middle line:84% is a radical thing, not that you get killed or anything, 01:28:58.240 --> 01:29:01.030 align:middle line:84% but in most countries, like in France, they don't care. 01:29:01.030 --> 01:29:03.150 align:middle line:84% They'll stop traffic and they will-- 01:29:03.150 --> 01:29:04.990 align:middle line:84% the airport will stop functioning. 01:29:04.990 --> 01:29:06.700 align:middle line:90% Here we're a little different. 01:29:06.700 --> 01:29:08.722 align:middle line:84% But anyway, so wanting to know-- so 01:29:08.722 --> 01:29:10.180 align:middle line:84% tell me, where are you coming from. 01:29:10.180 --> 01:29:13.410 align:middle line:84% I want to know about all the conditions-- 01:29:13.410 --> 01:29:17.410 align:middle line:84% conditions under which you are taking this step. 01:29:17.410 --> 01:29:20.200 align:middle line:84% And of course, seeking the facts. 01:29:20.200 --> 01:29:23.650 align:middle line:84% And if I can plug in national Public Radio, 01:29:23.650 --> 01:29:25.570 align:middle line:84% it's just about one of, in my opinion, 01:29:25.570 --> 01:29:29.660 align:middle line:84% one of the most credible sources of news and information. 01:29:29.660 --> 01:29:32.630 align:middle line:84% Nothing like articles in journals. 01:29:32.630 --> 01:29:34.610 align:middle line:84% But if you want to know the news, 01:29:34.610 --> 01:29:38.170 align:middle line:84% you can get the app from-- on your phone. 01:29:38.170 --> 01:29:39.380 align:middle line:90% So consider that. 01:29:39.380 --> 01:29:43.180 align:middle line:84% And then the other thing is practice solidarity. 01:29:43.180 --> 01:29:45.610 align:middle line:84% It strikes me that solidarity is not 01:29:45.610 --> 01:29:47.530 align:middle line:84% a very common word in our language 01:29:47.530 --> 01:29:49.850 align:middle line:84% in the English-American language. 01:29:49.850 --> 01:29:53.980 align:middle line:84% And solidarity is pretty common in a lot of societies. 01:29:53.980 --> 01:29:55.840 align:middle line:84% I was watching the news the other day 01:29:55.840 --> 01:29:59.050 align:middle line:90% and I already knew this. 01:29:59.050 --> 01:30:02.750 align:middle line:84% The Spanish-speaking network-- television networks in the US. 01:30:02.750 --> 01:30:07.480 align:middle line:84% They call each other the equivalent to comrade [SPANISH]. 01:30:07.480 --> 01:30:10.040 align:middle line:84% And that's not something you do in American media. 01:30:10.040 --> 01:30:13.400 align:middle line:84% Just a little reflection, of that individualism, right. 01:30:13.400 --> 01:30:14.900 align:middle line:90% But anyway, solidarity. 01:30:14.900 --> 01:30:17.240 align:middle line:84% And I'm telling you this and this is the last thing. 01:30:17.240 --> 01:30:20.860 align:middle line:84% So the range of choices in college, campuses, and I 01:30:20.860 --> 01:30:23.720 align:middle line:84% see you are in the journey from going to college, 01:30:23.720 --> 01:30:27.420 align:middle line:84% and a lot of you will transfer to a Cal State or UC, or maybe 01:30:27.420 --> 01:30:29.470 align:middle line:90% a big campus private university. 01:30:29.470 --> 01:30:32.760 align:middle line:84% The range of choices to join in and practice 01:30:32.760 --> 01:30:35.680 align:middle line:84% empathy and practice solidarity is huge. 01:30:35.680 --> 01:30:37.890 align:middle line:84% And I'm telling you, the college campus 01:30:37.890 --> 01:30:41.170 align:middle line:84% is one of the safest places to do just that. 01:30:41.170 --> 01:30:45.430 align:middle line:84% And the example that I have here is student clubs. 01:30:45.430 --> 01:30:46.810 align:middle line:90% So just think about it. 01:30:46.810 --> 01:30:49.000 align:middle line:84% There's a whole bunch of-- he's-- 01:30:49.000 --> 01:30:51.130 align:middle line:84% you're an advisor of a student club. 01:30:51.130 --> 01:30:52.710 align:middle line:90% I advise another. 01:30:52.710 --> 01:30:53.420 align:middle line:90% Do you advise? 01:30:53.420 --> 01:30:53.920 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I do. 01:30:53.920 --> 01:30:55.000 align:middle line:90% You see. 01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:57.340 align:middle line:90% So take that step. 01:30:57.340 --> 01:30:58.380 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:30:58.380 --> 01:30:59.910 align:middle line:90% That is beautiful. 01:30:59.910 --> 01:31:03.340 align:middle line:84% Oh, good round of applause for all of the panelists, please. 01:31:03.340 --> 01:31:04.792 align:middle line:90% So we'll transition. 01:31:04.792 --> 01:31:06.250 align:middle line:84% I'm supposed to stay close to this. 01:31:06.250 --> 01:31:10.840 align:middle line:84% We'll transition now to your questions. 01:31:10.840 --> 01:31:13.560 align:middle line:84% And [? Anya ?] and Samantha, I don't mean to put you 01:31:13.560 --> 01:31:16.090 align:middle line:84% on the spot or anything, but do you guys want to come-- 01:31:16.090 --> 01:31:19.290 align:middle line:84% you guys want to come up and start the line so that 01:31:19.290 --> 01:31:20.970 align:middle line:90% the questions come out-- 01:31:20.970 --> 01:31:23.490 align:middle line:84% so that the questions come out in the video. 01:31:23.490 --> 01:31:28.030 align:middle line:84% If you want to ask a question, just make a line in the aisle. 01:31:28.030 --> 01:31:30.850 align:middle line:84% So we can have line coming up and then a line going back. 01:31:30.850 --> 01:31:32.170 align:middle line:90% Come on up. 01:31:32.170 --> 01:31:39.540 align:middle line:84% Are you-- you be the first groundbreaker. 01:31:39.540 --> 01:31:41.400 align:middle line:90% All right, [? Anya. ?] 01:31:41.400 --> 01:31:42.630 align:middle line:90% OK. 01:31:42.630 --> 01:31:46.530 align:middle line:84% My question is like, how do we push 01:31:46.530 --> 01:31:51.780 align:middle line:84% for action in social issues such as environmental issues, animal 01:31:51.780 --> 01:31:56.040 align:middle line:84% rights without invading other sense of self? 01:31:56.040 --> 01:31:57.340 align:middle line:90% When-- yeah. 01:31:57.340 --> 01:32:01.650 align:middle line:84% When sometimes science isn't even enough. 01:32:01.650 --> 01:32:02.310 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 01:32:02.310 --> 01:32:03.910 align:middle line:84% So what-- you said without invading? 01:32:03.910 --> 01:32:06.420 align:middle line:84% Yeah, other people's sense of self. 01:32:06.420 --> 01:32:09.090 align:middle line:90% So how could we-- 01:32:09.090 --> 01:32:10.180 align:middle line:90% yeah. 01:32:10.180 --> 01:32:11.320 align:middle line:90% That's a good question. 01:32:11.320 --> 01:32:14.070 align:middle line:84% I'd have to think about it probably a bit more. 01:32:14.070 --> 01:32:17.910 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think there's often a threat to people's sense of self 01:32:17.910 --> 01:32:19.510 align:middle line:90% when you ask anything of them. 01:32:19.510 --> 01:32:21.927 align:middle line:84% That something they don't already believe or don't already 01:32:21.927 --> 01:32:23.638 align:middle line:90% want to do. 01:32:23.638 --> 01:32:25.680 align:middle line:84% And I think getting back to the Sergio's comments 01:32:25.680 --> 01:32:29.920 align:middle line:84% about individualism as an ethos or egoism as an ethos, 01:32:29.920 --> 01:32:32.580 align:middle line:84% I think asking anybody to do anything challenges some 01:32:32.580 --> 01:32:33.098 align:middle line:90% of that. 01:32:33.098 --> 01:32:34.390 align:middle line:90% Like, don't tell me what to do. 01:32:34.390 --> 01:32:37.420 align:middle line:84% I mean, we're talking about it's interesting-- healthcare-- 01:32:37.420 --> 01:32:40.553 align:middle line:84% I think in maybe your class and we were talking about 01:32:40.553 --> 01:32:42.220 align:middle line:84% whether it's a right or not or whatever, 01:32:42.220 --> 01:32:45.250 align:middle line:84% and I had a couple students that talked to me that said, hey, 01:32:45.250 --> 01:32:47.980 align:middle line:84% even if people have some right to healthcare, 01:32:47.980 --> 01:32:48.730 align:middle line:90% it's a good thing. 01:32:48.730 --> 01:32:50.105 align:middle line:84% Like, I don't want to pay for it. 01:32:50.105 --> 01:32:50.605 align:middle line:90% Sure. 01:32:50.605 --> 01:32:52.355 align:middle line:84% I don't want someone to die in the streets 01:32:52.355 --> 01:32:53.880 align:middle line:84% in the sense of an ethical awareness 01:32:53.880 --> 01:32:57.450 align:middle line:84% that-- which gets to empathy or compassion that matters. 01:32:57.450 --> 01:33:00.190 align:middle line:84% But then it's invariably interpreted as a threat. 01:33:00.190 --> 01:33:01.368 align:middle line:90% But it's my money. 01:33:01.368 --> 01:33:02.410 align:middle line:90% Yeah, they shouldn't die. 01:33:02.410 --> 01:33:03.410 align:middle line:90% But, man, I want to go-- 01:33:03.410 --> 01:33:06.270 align:middle line:84% I want to go to McDonald's later and another $50 ruins that. 01:33:06.270 --> 01:33:10.020 align:middle line:84% And so I think in some ways, I do want a disruptive approach 01:33:10.020 --> 01:33:11.803 align:middle line:84% to this or a consciousness revolution 01:33:11.803 --> 01:33:13.720 align:middle line:84% as some call for which I think is threatening. 01:33:13.720 --> 01:33:15.928 align:middle line:84% And I'm OK with that, I guess, is what I want to say. 01:33:15.928 --> 01:33:18.840 align:middle line:84% I place a higher premium on these goals 01:33:18.840 --> 01:33:21.470 align:middle line:84% of bettering the world, being more inclusive, 01:33:21.470 --> 01:33:23.360 align:middle line:84% combating speciesism, sexism, racism. 01:33:23.360 --> 01:33:25.360 align:middle line:84% So for me, that's inherently disruptive 01:33:25.360 --> 01:33:28.300 align:middle line:84% and probably threatening to many people, but in the right way. 01:33:28.300 --> 01:33:31.150 align:middle line:84% Now, you can do it in a way that's more offensive or maybe 01:33:31.150 --> 01:33:33.235 align:middle line:90% more direct, where you-- 01:33:33.235 --> 01:33:37.090 align:middle line:84% I don't know-- call them out in a way or name call 01:33:37.090 --> 01:33:38.480 align:middle line:90% or try to belittle them. 01:33:38.480 --> 01:33:39.980 align:middle line:84% So I don't think that's appropriate. 01:33:39.980 --> 01:33:43.810 align:middle line:84% But I do think, asking others to give a shit about others 01:33:43.810 --> 01:33:47.170 align:middle line:84% or to combat their sense of entitlement or individualism 01:33:47.170 --> 01:33:48.920 align:middle line:84% is threatening, but in the right way. 01:33:48.920 --> 01:33:52.420 align:middle line:84% So I would say I support it, but with kindness, 01:33:52.420 --> 01:33:53.772 align:middle line:90% like the friendly revolutionary. 01:33:53.772 --> 01:33:56.480 align:middle line:84% I think there are ways to do it, but sometimes that doesn't work. 01:33:56.480 --> 01:33:58.103 align:middle line:90% And you have to strong arm. 01:33:58.103 --> 01:33:58.770 align:middle line:90% So I don't know. 01:33:58.770 --> 01:34:01.240 align:middle line:84% I don't-- yeah I don't hide from that, I guess. 01:34:01.240 --> 01:34:02.540 align:middle line:90% But good question. 01:34:02.540 --> 01:34:03.290 align:middle line:90% Wonderful. 01:34:03.290 --> 01:34:04.000 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:34:04.000 --> 01:34:05.960 align:middle line:90% Oh yeah. 01:34:05.960 --> 01:34:08.260 align:middle line:84% I was just going to also say that-- 01:34:08.260 --> 01:34:13.480 align:middle line:84% I mean, in my film, like the communities that 01:34:13.480 --> 01:34:17.470 align:middle line:84% are represented in the film, they all 01:34:17.470 --> 01:34:22.470 align:middle line:84% find solidarity with each other through building a coalition. 01:34:22.470 --> 01:34:25.100 align:middle line:84% And I think that for-- especially for communities 01:34:25.100 --> 01:34:30.830 align:middle line:84% who have suffered from particular prejudices 01:34:30.830 --> 01:34:36.990 align:middle line:84% or adverse societal circumstances, 01:34:36.990 --> 01:34:40.860 align:middle line:84% I think that there's ways that people do come together. 01:34:40.860 --> 01:34:44.900 align:middle line:84% And I think that that's also in terms 01:34:44.900 --> 01:34:48.620 align:middle line:84% of making larger changes like that has to be recognized 01:34:48.620 --> 01:34:51.320 align:middle line:90% as a way forward. 01:34:51.320 --> 01:34:52.600 align:middle line:90% Thank you so much. 01:34:52.600 --> 01:34:55.610 align:middle line:90% 01:34:55.610 --> 01:34:59.360 align:middle line:84% So my question might be hard to answer. 01:34:59.360 --> 01:34:59.860 align:middle line:90% So-- 01:34:59.860 --> 01:35:01.730 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 01:35:01.730 --> 01:35:04.910 align:middle line:84% Well, I'm learning how to pin bugs for my semester project 01:35:04.910 --> 01:35:06.600 align:middle line:90% for our biology class. 01:35:06.600 --> 01:35:09.540 align:middle line:84% And I feel bad about killing the bugs, 01:35:09.540 --> 01:35:12.145 align:middle line:84% but my teacher said that I shouldn't because you learn. 01:35:12.145 --> 01:35:13.536 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 01:35:13.536 --> 01:35:15.408 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 01:35:15.408 --> 01:35:16.210 align:middle line:90% Who's that? 01:35:16.210 --> 01:35:16.710 align:middle line:90% Look at-- 01:35:16.710 --> 01:35:18.090 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 01:35:18.090 --> 01:35:19.890 align:middle line:90% At you, Sarah. 01:35:19.890 --> 01:35:23.280 align:middle line:84% Because she said that I can learn a new skill that will help 01:35:23.280 --> 01:35:25.210 align:middle line:90% save animals in the future. 01:35:25.210 --> 01:35:28.060 align:middle line:84% But, I mean, I'm not technically going into that field, 01:35:28.060 --> 01:35:32.700 align:middle line:84% so I don't know how much I learned from the bugs matters, 01:35:32.700 --> 01:35:34.390 align:middle line:90% per se, in that part. 01:35:34.390 --> 01:35:36.750 align:middle line:84% But I was talking to my mom about it 01:35:36.750 --> 01:35:39.810 align:middle line:84% because my mom doesn't care about killing bugs 01:35:39.810 --> 01:35:42.490 align:middle line:84% and there's other people in the room like, step on a spider. 01:35:42.490 --> 01:35:43.420 align:middle line:90% They don't care. 01:35:43.420 --> 01:35:47.987 align:middle line:84% So where is the line between what you're allowed to kill 01:35:47.987 --> 01:35:48.820 align:middle line:90% and what you're not. 01:35:48.820 --> 01:35:50.403 align:middle line:84% Because my mom's like, what if there's 01:35:50.403 --> 01:35:51.695 align:middle line:90% termites destroying your house. 01:35:51.695 --> 01:35:53.695 align:middle line:84% You're just going to let them destroy your house 01:35:53.695 --> 01:35:54.930 align:middle line:90% or you kill the termites? 01:35:54.930 --> 01:35:58.440 align:middle line:84% So where is the line we kill animals 01:35:58.440 --> 01:36:02.550 align:middle line:84% to eat the food like cows, pigs but then people 01:36:02.550 --> 01:36:04.780 align:middle line:84% feel bad about killing dogs and cats. 01:36:04.780 --> 01:36:09.870 align:middle line:84% So, where is the line of what you should and should not 01:36:09.870 --> 01:36:10.895 align:middle line:90% kill an animal. 01:36:10.895 --> 01:36:12.147 align:middle line:90% I'll go second. 01:36:12.147 --> 01:36:13.480 align:middle line:90% I have a brief comment, but go-- 01:36:13.480 --> 01:36:15.390 align:middle line:90% OK. 01:36:15.390 --> 01:36:17.140 align:middle line:90% I think that is the question. 01:36:17.140 --> 01:36:20.400 align:middle line:84% I think as we become more aware of the environment 01:36:20.400 --> 01:36:22.770 align:middle line:84% that we exist in, those questions 01:36:22.770 --> 01:36:26.100 align:middle line:84% become more and more important for us to understand. 01:36:26.100 --> 01:36:28.110 align:middle line:84% We know that the bug that you killed 01:36:28.110 --> 01:36:32.820 align:middle line:84% has a unique piece of DNA that's probably never been replicated 01:36:32.820 --> 01:36:34.390 align:middle line:90% in the world's history. 01:36:34.390 --> 01:36:35.860 align:middle line:90% How do we value that? 01:36:35.860 --> 01:36:37.270 align:middle line:90% Or do we value that? 01:36:37.270 --> 01:36:39.480 align:middle line:84% Or does it mean anything in terms 01:36:39.480 --> 01:36:41.620 align:middle line:84% of the context of the natural world, 01:36:41.620 --> 01:36:44.190 align:middle line:84% or in terms of the context of our world? 01:36:44.190 --> 01:36:48.190 align:middle line:84% That's absolutely where you want to be. 01:36:48.190 --> 01:36:48.690 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 01:36:48.690 --> 01:36:52.410 align:middle line:84% So in ethics, I mean, there's a few questions 01:36:52.410 --> 01:36:56.070 align:middle line:84% that you raise that involve a few aspects of the question that 01:36:56.070 --> 01:36:57.750 align:middle line:84% involve different theoretical frameworks 01:36:57.750 --> 01:36:58.750 align:middle line:90% or practical frameworks. 01:36:58.750 --> 01:37:00.570 align:middle line:84% So the big one is just moral community. 01:37:00.570 --> 01:37:02.790 align:middle line:84% How do we define a moral community? 01:37:02.790 --> 01:37:04.620 align:middle line:84% Who or what counts as again, what 01:37:04.620 --> 01:37:07.188 align:middle line:84% individuals or potential selves count in that community? 01:37:07.188 --> 01:37:07.980 align:middle line:90% And to what degree? 01:37:07.980 --> 01:37:08.800 align:middle line:90% Does it have to be equal? 01:37:08.800 --> 01:37:10.510 align:middle line:84% You might say, well, I place all humans here, 01:37:10.510 --> 01:37:13.010 align:middle line:84% and then maybe you have some great chain of being type thing 01:37:13.010 --> 01:37:15.460 align:middle line:84% where primates and maybe some pot animals or cetaceans, 01:37:15.460 --> 01:37:20.260 align:middle line:84% all the way down to whatever microorganisms. 01:37:20.260 --> 01:37:22.690 align:middle line:84% I'm challenging us to think maybe a bit differently about 01:37:22.690 --> 01:37:25.362 align:middle line:84% that the interconnectedness of reality 01:37:25.362 --> 01:37:27.070 align:middle line:84% and this dependent arising of all reality 01:37:27.070 --> 01:37:29.327 align:middle line:84% means we're intimately interconnected in a way that-- 01:37:29.327 --> 01:37:31.660 align:middle line:84% I mean, you see this with the threat to bee populations. 01:37:31.660 --> 01:37:34.700 align:middle line:84% Like, could ruin agriculture for the world. 01:37:34.700 --> 01:37:37.430 align:middle line:84% And so I think valuing all elements of nature, 01:37:37.430 --> 01:37:39.490 align:middle line:84% I think, for me is a starting point. 01:37:39.490 --> 01:37:41.740 align:middle line:84% But tough decisions have to be made. 01:37:41.740 --> 01:37:45.160 align:middle line:84% Research or experiments for curing cancer or HIV/AIDS 01:37:45.160 --> 01:37:49.810 align:middle line:84% or even for human knowledge that might 01:37:49.810 --> 01:37:54.380 align:middle line:84% lead to other great benefits, we pin bugs or do whatever. 01:37:54.380 --> 01:37:56.885 align:middle line:84% I'd be curious what these great benefits are, 01:37:56.885 --> 01:37:58.010 align:middle line:90% but I'm sure they're there. 01:37:58.010 --> 01:37:58.870 align:middle line:90% That's all I'm saying. 01:37:58.870 --> 01:38:00.320 align:middle line:84% And I think those are tough decisions. 01:38:00.320 --> 01:38:02.980 align:middle line:84% I think that's something I want us to think about how we define 01:38:02.980 --> 01:38:06.130 align:middle line:84% moral community-- if we've noticed our own hypocrisies 01:38:06.130 --> 01:38:06.830 align:middle line:90% along the way. 01:38:06.830 --> 01:38:09.530 align:middle line:84% Like you said, we might privilege dogs, 01:38:09.530 --> 01:38:11.300 align:middle line:84% but then we'll eat a pork sandwich, right? 01:38:11.300 --> 01:38:14.110 align:middle line:84% And I think that's fairly ethically incoherent that 01:38:14.110 --> 01:38:14.610 align:middle line:90% happens. 01:38:14.610 --> 01:38:16.790 align:middle line:84% And I think you're pointing that out. 01:38:16.790 --> 01:38:18.478 align:middle line:84% And so I don't have an answer for that. 01:38:18.478 --> 01:38:21.020 align:middle line:84% I think I want to challenge the framework of this great chain 01:38:21.020 --> 01:38:24.890 align:middle line:84% of being notion that there's lesser beings that 01:38:24.890 --> 01:38:27.140 align:middle line:90% matter less or that matter-- 01:38:27.140 --> 01:38:29.690 align:middle line:84% or that aren't ethically as significant. 01:38:29.690 --> 01:38:31.520 align:middle line:84% But recognizing that we all have to have 01:38:31.520 --> 01:38:33.950 align:middle line:84% that discussion at some point and that there's 01:38:33.950 --> 01:38:36.390 align:middle line:84% no solution that in which there's no suffering. 01:38:36.390 --> 01:38:39.370 align:middle line:84% I think I support this Buddhist utopia, the cessation 01:38:39.370 --> 01:38:41.120 align:middle line:84% of suffering, but realize as long as there 01:38:41.120 --> 01:38:43.370 align:middle line:84% are beings capable of suffering and beings 01:38:43.370 --> 01:38:46.490 align:middle line:84% capable of inflicting suffering, that's unavoidable. 01:38:46.490 --> 01:38:48.690 align:middle line:84% Now, we can avoid it to a certain degree. 01:38:48.690 --> 01:38:51.320 align:middle line:84% And so-- but I don't have an answer for you 01:38:51.320 --> 01:38:55.040 align:middle line:84% in terms of where that line is or even if there is a line, what 01:38:55.040 --> 01:38:56.300 align:middle line:90% overrides that line. 01:38:56.300 --> 01:38:58.550 align:middle line:84% We might even say self-defense would override the line 01:38:58.550 --> 01:39:00.710 align:middle line:90% of human suffering mattering. 01:39:00.710 --> 01:39:01.560 align:middle line:90% Maybe not. 01:39:01.560 --> 01:39:03.740 align:middle line:84% Some radical pacifism is an option, 01:39:03.740 --> 01:39:06.440 align:middle line:84% but I would say it's probably one of the more rich, ethically 01:39:06.440 --> 01:39:08.273 align:middle line:84% and philosophically and personally questions 01:39:08.273 --> 01:39:09.030 align:middle line:90% you can ever ask. 01:39:09.030 --> 01:39:10.900 align:middle line:84% Who or what matters in your community? 01:39:10.900 --> 01:39:13.470 align:middle line:84% How you define the community, and how do you 01:39:13.470 --> 01:39:16.107 align:middle line:84% place those entities or individuals in relationship 01:39:16.107 --> 01:39:16.690 align:middle line:90% to each other? 01:39:16.690 --> 01:39:17.940 align:middle line:84% Or do you have a more holistic view 01:39:17.940 --> 01:39:20.490 align:middle line:84% that tries to break down those barriers between individuals 01:39:20.490 --> 01:39:24.337 align:middle line:84% or the part whole relationship of reality and what matters? 01:39:24.337 --> 01:39:25.420 align:middle line:90% So I don't have an answer. 01:39:25.420 --> 01:39:27.212 align:middle line:84% I have more problems and questions for you, 01:39:27.212 --> 01:39:29.970 align:middle line:84% but I think pondering those can be one of the richer exercises 01:39:29.970 --> 01:39:30.940 align:middle line:90% you can do. 01:39:30.940 --> 01:39:32.378 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:39:32.378 --> 01:39:34.420 align:middle line:84% That's why I said it was hard to answer question, 01:39:34.420 --> 01:39:37.000 align:middle line:84% because I know it's like there's a line, but it's blurry. 01:39:37.000 --> 01:39:37.500 align:middle line:90% And-- 01:39:37.500 --> 01:39:38.890 align:middle line:84% For many it's like something like sentience. 01:39:38.890 --> 01:39:40.098 align:middle line:90% I'll say that's a common one. 01:39:40.098 --> 01:39:41.700 align:middle line:84% So if you're capable of experiencing 01:39:41.700 --> 01:39:44.050 align:middle line:84% pleasure or pain that at least is minimal, 01:39:44.050 --> 01:39:45.678 align:middle line:84% a minimal attribute to be entered 01:39:45.678 --> 01:39:46.720 align:middle line:90% into the moral community. 01:39:46.720 --> 01:39:48.428 align:middle line:84% And I think that's a fair starting point. 01:39:48.428 --> 01:39:50.010 align:middle line:84% I go much further than that, but that 01:39:50.010 --> 01:39:53.300 align:middle line:84% might be one starting point that might make sense. 01:39:53.300 --> 01:39:53.800 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 01:39:53.800 --> 01:39:55.710 align:middle line:84% If something can suffer, don't make 01:39:55.710 --> 01:39:58.650 align:middle line:90% it suffer unless you have to. 01:39:58.650 --> 01:40:03.000 align:middle line:84% I'll say one other thing in the defense of identifying bugs-- 01:40:03.000 --> 01:40:03.730 align:middle line:90% I need this part. 01:40:03.730 --> 01:40:04.230 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 01:40:04.230 --> 01:40:06.900 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 01:40:06.900 --> 01:40:12.390 align:middle line:84% There was a wise saying that the beginning of wisdom 01:40:12.390 --> 01:40:14.680 align:middle line:84% is getting things by the right name, 01:40:14.680 --> 01:40:17.940 align:middle line:84% and without being able to have that capacity 01:40:17.940 --> 01:40:21.430 align:middle line:84% to identify a bug, an insect, a spider, 01:40:21.430 --> 01:40:26.650 align:middle line:84% we lose the ability of telling what's different, what's unique, 01:40:26.650 --> 01:40:27.670 align:middle line:90% what's special. 01:40:27.670 --> 01:40:31.370 align:middle line:84% And so that's a balance that needs to be considered as well. 01:40:31.370 --> 01:40:34.680 align:middle line:90% 01:40:34.680 --> 01:40:37.530 align:middle line:84% So just to make it more confusing, 01:40:37.530 --> 01:40:39.870 align:middle line:90% I'll say one more thing. 01:40:39.870 --> 01:40:46.320 align:middle line:84% But at the same time, I would say that the idea of knowledge 01:40:46.320 --> 01:40:50.640 align:middle line:84% is a very Western idea, because it's this idea of control 01:40:50.640 --> 01:40:53.805 align:middle line:84% as well, and that we can control something 01:40:53.805 --> 01:40:56.560 align:middle line:90% if we think we know what it is. 01:40:56.560 --> 01:40:59.070 align:middle line:90% But how can we know, really? 01:40:59.070 --> 01:41:02.615 align:middle line:84% So there's something else to think about. 01:41:02.615 --> 01:41:06.010 align:middle line:90% 01:41:06.010 --> 01:41:06.510 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 01:41:06.510 --> 01:41:08.320 align:middle line:84% So some of the things that I've been thinking about 01:41:08.320 --> 01:41:10.433 align:middle line:84% as we've been talking is like challenging some 01:41:10.433 --> 01:41:11.600 align:middle line:90% of these ideas a little bit. 01:41:11.600 --> 01:41:14.570 align:middle line:84% And I'm thinking about citizens united, right? 01:41:14.570 --> 01:41:19.210 align:middle line:84% The Supreme Court case that granted person-- personal rights 01:41:19.210 --> 01:41:20.870 align:middle line:90% to corporations, right? 01:41:20.870 --> 01:41:22.543 align:middle line:84% That is the biggest crock of shit 01:41:22.543 --> 01:41:23.960 align:middle line:84% that I've ever heard in the world. 01:41:23.960 --> 01:41:26.620 align:middle line:84% And how many individual rights were then 01:41:26.620 --> 01:41:29.950 align:middle line:84% infringed based on granting personhood to something 01:41:29.950 --> 01:41:31.600 align:middle line:90% like a corporation? 01:41:31.600 --> 01:41:33.580 align:middle line:84% In addition to that, though, but now there 01:41:33.580 --> 01:41:36.250 align:middle line:84% are activists that have taken that same structure 01:41:36.250 --> 01:41:40.240 align:middle line:84% and have fought for personal rights for things like rivers 01:41:40.240 --> 01:41:42.680 align:middle line:90% or natural formations. 01:41:42.680 --> 01:41:46.660 align:middle line:84% So there is something about this question of even beyond 01:41:46.660 --> 01:41:50.480 align:middle line:84% sentience, that has to do with rights, like the legal system. 01:41:50.480 --> 01:41:52.960 align:middle line:84% How is it actually filtered through the system 01:41:52.960 --> 01:41:55.180 align:middle line:84% that we are forced to live within? 01:41:55.180 --> 01:41:58.600 align:middle line:84% So I could imagine a world in which your insects are granted 01:41:58.600 --> 01:42:02.000 align:middle line:84% personal rights through some court case or something, 01:42:02.000 --> 01:42:05.990 align:middle line:84% and just the slippery problems that brings up 01:42:05.990 --> 01:42:07.910 align:middle line:90% in all sorts of things. 01:42:07.910 --> 01:42:10.110 align:middle line:84% I just wanted to enter that into the room, 01:42:10.110 --> 01:42:13.010 align:middle line:84% because I think it's foundational to the way 01:42:13.010 --> 01:42:14.513 align:middle line:84% to really to a lot of the problems 01:42:14.513 --> 01:42:15.930 align:middle line:84% that we're dealing with right now, 01:42:15.930 --> 01:42:19.710 align:middle line:84% but maybe also suggests paths-- paths forward. 01:42:19.710 --> 01:42:20.210 align:middle line:90% OK. 01:42:20.210 --> 01:42:20.850 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:42:20.850 --> 01:42:21.350 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 01:42:21.350 --> 01:42:22.980 align:middle line:90% Thank you for the question. 01:42:22.980 --> 01:42:24.060 align:middle line:90% Next question. 01:42:24.060 --> 01:42:24.750 align:middle line:90% Come on up. 01:42:24.750 --> 01:42:27.260 align:middle line:84% So first I wanted to thank all of the presenters 01:42:27.260 --> 01:42:30.530 align:middle line:84% for your thoughtful contributions to this topic. 01:42:30.530 --> 01:42:35.390 align:middle line:84% I think it definitely caused a knee-jerk reaction in me 01:42:35.390 --> 01:42:37.440 align:middle line:84% that brought me up here to ask a question. 01:42:37.440 --> 01:42:39.920 align:middle line:84% So I think it was successful in that way. 01:42:39.920 --> 01:42:45.480 align:middle line:84% And really appreciated the variety of approaches to this. 01:42:45.480 --> 01:42:48.790 align:middle line:90% But the idea of a-- 01:42:48.790 --> 01:42:51.560 align:middle line:90% 01:42:51.560 --> 01:42:55.670 align:middle line:90% the illusion of individuality. 01:42:55.670 --> 01:43:00.740 align:middle line:84% I was wondering is individual-- is individuality an illusion 01:43:00.740 --> 01:43:05.230 align:middle line:84% or are we talking about scale and granularity? 01:43:05.230 --> 01:43:07.570 align:middle line:84% We can have an individual gold atom. 01:43:07.570 --> 01:43:10.180 align:middle line:84% We can have a gold bar, we can have a pile of gold bars. 01:43:10.180 --> 01:43:12.388 align:middle line:84% And then we can have a pile of gold bars sitting next 01:43:12.388 --> 01:43:13.720 align:middle line:90% to another pile of gold bars. 01:43:13.720 --> 01:43:16.320 align:middle line:84% And each one of those in their own scale 01:43:16.320 --> 01:43:18.690 align:middle line:90% is an individual thing. 01:43:18.690 --> 01:43:23.620 align:middle line:84% And we can extrapolate in both directions almost infinitely. 01:43:23.620 --> 01:43:30.460 align:middle line:84% But when we look at the level that we're trying to discover, 01:43:30.460 --> 01:43:33.630 align:middle line:84% we see that thing as the individual. 01:43:33.630 --> 01:43:38.940 align:middle line:84% So it, I guess, is it more important 01:43:38.940 --> 01:43:41.650 align:middle line:84% to break the illusion of individuality, 01:43:41.650 --> 01:43:44.940 align:middle line:84% or is it more important to see the continuum 01:43:44.940 --> 01:43:49.508 align:middle line:84% that the individual exists within? 01:43:49.508 --> 01:43:50.680 align:middle line:90% I'll jump on it again. 01:43:50.680 --> 01:43:51.540 align:middle line:90% Sorry. 01:43:51.540 --> 01:43:53.440 align:middle line:84% Don't want to hog the time, but yeah. 01:43:53.440 --> 01:43:55.950 align:middle line:84% So I think you said what I was getting 01:43:55.950 --> 01:43:58.740 align:middle line:84% at that it's an illusion in the sense of it's a fiction 01:43:58.740 --> 01:44:00.780 align:middle line:90% or it's a framework. 01:44:00.780 --> 01:44:05.000 align:middle line:84% Doesn't mean it's wrong or that it's bad even. 01:44:05.000 --> 01:44:09.622 align:middle line:84% But it's a story we tell about the level of which we analyze. 01:44:09.622 --> 01:44:12.080 align:middle line:84% Think of even instrumentation in the sciences or something; 01:44:12.080 --> 01:44:14.300 align:middle line:84% the microscope, the telescope continuum or something. 01:44:14.300 --> 01:44:16.070 align:middle line:84% And so we do that with reality all the time. 01:44:16.070 --> 01:44:17.660 align:middle line:84% And it has to do with our perceptual apparatus. 01:44:17.660 --> 01:44:19.120 align:middle line:84% And then our conceptual apparatus 01:44:19.120 --> 01:44:21.190 align:middle line:84% that's built upon that, what can we perceive 01:44:21.190 --> 01:44:22.490 align:middle line:90% and how do we categorize it? 01:44:22.490 --> 01:44:24.590 align:middle line:90% Our need to do taxonomy here. 01:44:24.590 --> 01:44:27.400 align:middle line:84% Getting back to the entomology point. 01:44:27.400 --> 01:44:29.720 align:middle line:84% And so, yeah, I don't think it's wrong to do that. 01:44:29.720 --> 01:44:31.387 align:middle line:84% And like I said, we experience something 01:44:31.387 --> 01:44:33.320 align:middle line:84% as individuals, ourselves as individuals. 01:44:33.320 --> 01:44:35.903 align:middle line:84% And we look at the world and we can say there's an individual. 01:44:35.903 --> 01:44:38.900 align:middle line:84% You said pebble, rock, quarry, ecosystem. 01:44:38.900 --> 01:44:40.040 align:middle line:90% I think that's fine. 01:44:40.040 --> 01:44:41.582 align:middle line:84% I think in the history of philosophy, 01:44:41.582 --> 01:44:44.800 align:middle line:84% though, there's an obsession with finding a substantive self 01:44:44.800 --> 01:44:47.110 align:middle line:84% that is some rock bottom foundational 01:44:47.110 --> 01:44:48.875 align:middle line:90% thing, a thing in the world. 01:44:48.875 --> 01:44:50.000 align:middle line:90% I think that's an illusion. 01:44:50.000 --> 01:44:52.520 align:middle line:84% And that quest in pursuing that illusion, I think, 01:44:52.520 --> 01:44:54.260 align:middle line:90% has led to a lot of great harm. 01:44:54.260 --> 01:44:58.540 align:middle line:84% The discrete-- the discrete instance of time and space 01:44:58.540 --> 01:45:04.100 align:middle line:84% that I inhabit is not a reality of individuality. 01:45:04.100 --> 01:45:06.560 align:middle line:90% I'm fine with saying that. 01:45:06.560 --> 01:45:08.860 align:middle line:84% I'm saying-- or seeing that as a way 01:45:08.860 --> 01:45:10.645 align:middle line:84% of understanding our own experience. 01:45:10.645 --> 01:45:12.770 align:middle line:84% I think even the language Robin got to this, right. 01:45:12.770 --> 01:45:17.360 align:middle line:84% We say things like self or mind, the pronoun game, which is true. 01:45:17.360 --> 01:45:22.030 align:middle line:84% We are experiencers in the world and we 01:45:22.030 --> 01:45:25.780 align:middle line:84% inhabit-- you said a place in space and time and history 01:45:25.780 --> 01:45:27.140 align:middle line:90% and I think that's fine. 01:45:27.140 --> 01:45:29.200 align:middle line:84% And we should have language that does justice to that in the way 01:45:29.200 --> 01:45:30.890 align:middle line:84% that my experiences are in some ways, 01:45:30.890 --> 01:45:32.860 align:middle line:84% different from and more located in me 01:45:32.860 --> 01:45:34.430 align:middle line:90% than your experiences are-- 01:45:34.430 --> 01:45:36.097 align:middle line:84% or my experience-- than your experiences 01:45:36.097 --> 01:45:37.400 align:middle line:90% are for me and vice versa. 01:45:37.400 --> 01:45:38.480 align:middle line:90% I think that's all fine. 01:45:38.480 --> 01:45:41.470 align:middle line:84% I'm just pointing out that the reality that there 01:45:41.470 --> 01:45:46.420 align:middle line:84% are ethical consequences and others in focusing on the effort 01:45:46.420 --> 01:45:51.370 align:middle line:84% to find that substantive self and venerate it or increase 01:45:51.370 --> 01:45:52.490 align:middle line:90% its significance. 01:45:52.490 --> 01:45:54.380 align:middle line:84% So I'm just pointing out that in the history 01:45:54.380 --> 01:45:56.380 align:middle line:84% of philosophy, that's just been a major project. 01:45:56.380 --> 01:45:58.580 align:middle line:84% We think of the self or even consciousness project. 01:45:58.580 --> 01:46:01.340 align:middle line:84% And I want to problematize that, but not problematize 01:46:01.340 --> 01:46:04.820 align:middle line:84% the unavoidable reality of carving up 01:46:04.820 --> 01:46:07.500 align:middle line:84% the world in certain ways and having part whole relationships, 01:46:07.500 --> 01:46:10.352 align:middle line:84% and individuals all, as we go up that part, whole thing. 01:46:10.352 --> 01:46:12.060 align:middle line:84% So I think there's any problem with that. 01:46:12.060 --> 01:46:15.950 align:middle line:84% The problem is seizing on it, defining ourselves as something 01:46:15.950 --> 01:46:19.040 align:middle line:84% over and above, often other things, and often even 01:46:19.040 --> 01:46:19.582 align:middle line:90% other people. 01:46:19.582 --> 01:46:21.290 align:middle line:84% So that's what I'm getting with, I think, 01:46:21.290 --> 01:46:23.780 align:middle line:84% the class and race and gendered aspects 01:46:23.780 --> 01:46:26.245 align:middle line:84% of finding an immaterial self or a substantive self. 01:46:26.245 --> 01:46:27.870 align:middle line:84% I think there's an obsession with that. 01:46:27.870 --> 01:46:32.120 align:middle line:84% That is a problematic inheritance that plagues us all. 01:46:32.120 --> 01:46:35.235 align:middle line:84% And I can separate that from this broader, maybe taxonomic 01:46:35.235 --> 01:46:37.110 align:middle line:84% individualism where we want to divide things. 01:46:37.110 --> 01:46:37.860 align:middle line:90% I think that's OK. 01:46:37.860 --> 01:46:41.248 align:middle line:84% But notice the conceptual linkages there. 01:46:41.248 --> 01:46:43.290 align:middle line:84% You look at someone like Wittgenstein or Gadamer, 01:46:43.290 --> 01:46:44.420 align:middle line:84% and they look at these connections 01:46:44.420 --> 01:46:46.180 align:middle line:84% between these frameworks and you realize, oh, there 01:46:46.180 --> 01:46:47.097 align:middle line:90% is some overlap there. 01:46:47.097 --> 01:46:50.010 align:middle line:84% And wow, that need in me to divide up the world and well, 01:46:50.010 --> 01:46:54.060 align:middle line:84% wow, we have nation states and we have wars going on right now. 01:46:54.060 --> 01:46:56.690 align:middle line:84% And there's an urge inside all of us that, I think, 01:46:56.690 --> 01:46:59.350 align:middle line:84% is revealed or evidenced in those endeavors. 01:46:59.350 --> 01:47:02.770 align:middle line:84% That's also part of the philosophical quest, 01:47:02.770 --> 01:47:04.780 align:middle line:84% maybe fool's errand of finding the self. 01:47:04.780 --> 01:47:06.820 align:middle line:84% And so I just want to connect those in a way. 01:47:06.820 --> 01:47:09.670 align:middle line:84% But grant that I think the ones less problematic, 01:47:09.670 --> 01:47:11.400 align:middle line:84% but it's not entirely conceptually 01:47:11.400 --> 01:47:13.240 align:middle line:90% unrelated to the other. 01:47:13.240 --> 01:47:15.580 align:middle line:84% So yeah, I want to carve out a space. 01:47:15.580 --> 01:47:17.670 align:middle line:90% I'm OK with that, probably. 01:47:17.670 --> 01:47:19.690 align:middle line:84% There's a biological perspective too. 01:47:19.690 --> 01:47:21.780 align:middle line:84% I'm wondering if you want to- if you were 01:47:21.780 --> 01:47:24.724 align:middle line:90% going to jump in on that, Mark. 01:47:24.724 --> 01:47:27.760 align:middle line:84% I can-- I've got some stuff I'm dying to say, 01:47:27.760 --> 01:47:28.720 align:middle line:90% but I'm not a panelist. 01:47:28.720 --> 01:47:29.190 align:middle line:90% I don't want to-- 01:47:29.190 --> 01:47:29.790 align:middle line:90% Sure, you are-- 01:47:29.790 --> 01:47:30.640 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] privilege. 01:47:30.640 --> 01:47:31.140 align:middle line:90% You can do it. 01:47:31.140 --> 01:47:31.240 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 01:47:31.240 --> 01:47:32.250 align:middle line:90% Oh, is that right? 01:47:32.250 --> 01:47:33.160 align:middle line:90% I've never done this. 01:47:33.160 --> 01:47:34.960 align:middle line:84% I've never been a moderator before. 01:47:34.960 --> 01:47:37.870 align:middle line:90% So I think it's a both and. 01:47:37.870 --> 01:47:40.560 align:middle line:84% And the reason is that and I think you're-- 01:47:40.560 --> 01:47:43.200 align:middle line:84% I think your question is really an elegant one, and certainly 01:47:43.200 --> 01:47:45.100 align:middle line:84% one that I've grappled with a lot too, 01:47:45.100 --> 01:47:47.830 align:middle line:84% because if I go backwards from sponges, 01:47:47.830 --> 01:47:51.640 align:middle line:84% there are unicellular organisms called an organisms, 01:47:51.640 --> 01:47:53.680 align:middle line:90% as in the cells are autonomous. 01:47:53.680 --> 01:47:56.100 align:middle line:84% Like, what Mark was talking about choanoflagellates. 01:47:56.100 --> 01:47:56.820 align:middle line:90% They're called. 01:47:56.820 --> 01:48:00.930 align:middle line:84% And when they divide to reproduce, 01:48:00.930 --> 01:48:02.520 align:middle line:84% you'll have a second choanoflagellate. 01:48:02.520 --> 01:48:04.710 align:middle line:84% And sometimes they stay together and they aggregate. 01:48:04.710 --> 01:48:07.640 align:middle line:84% And then sometimes the aggregations 01:48:07.640 --> 01:48:11.040 align:middle line:84% will have some specialization and some division of labor. 01:48:11.040 --> 01:48:14.940 align:middle line:84% And at what point instead of having an aggregate, 01:48:14.940 --> 01:48:16.620 align:middle line:90% do you now have a colony? 01:48:16.620 --> 01:48:19.760 align:middle line:84% Because they're interdependent, even though each of them 01:48:19.760 --> 01:48:22.220 align:middle line:84% could split off individually and form another 01:48:22.220 --> 01:48:24.300 align:middle line:90% aggregate another colony. 01:48:24.300 --> 01:48:28.160 align:middle line:84% But at some point, you get to a level of specialization 01:48:28.160 --> 01:48:30.570 align:middle line:84% and you see this throughout life. 01:48:30.570 --> 01:48:32.790 align:middle line:84% You see this in plants, you see this in animals, 01:48:32.790 --> 01:48:33.930 align:middle line:90% you see this in fungi. 01:48:33.930 --> 01:48:37.290 align:middle line:84% You see it in subcellular life where you get to a scale, 01:48:37.290 --> 01:48:39.440 align:middle line:84% as you said, where you get to a scale 01:48:39.440 --> 01:48:41.700 align:middle line:84% where you have a new level of complexity. 01:48:41.700 --> 01:48:44.970 align:middle line:84% And this is a frontier in biology, 01:48:44.970 --> 01:48:47.840 align:middle line:84% actually is understanding the evolution 01:48:47.840 --> 01:48:51.180 align:middle line:84% of complexity both genetically and structurally. 01:48:51.180 --> 01:48:53.800 align:middle line:84% So both geneticists and physicists 01:48:53.800 --> 01:48:57.190 align:middle line:84% are working on this, how complexity scales because it 01:48:57.190 --> 01:49:00.590 align:middle line:84% appears, at least to my naive eye, 01:49:00.590 --> 01:49:02.870 align:middle line:84% because I don't understand most of those papers. 01:49:02.870 --> 01:49:05.500 align:middle line:84% I got to tell you, the man, it's like, wow. 01:49:05.500 --> 01:49:09.050 align:middle line:84% So I read the abstracts, but to my naive eye, 01:49:09.050 --> 01:49:12.820 align:middle line:84% it appears to me that functioning living systems 01:49:12.820 --> 01:49:16.380 align:middle line:84% not just like, arbitrary, how big is the lump of gold 01:49:16.380 --> 01:49:18.130 align:middle line:84% that we're talking about, but functionally 01:49:18.130 --> 01:49:20.710 align:middle line:84% living systems scale all the way up, perhaps 01:49:20.710 --> 01:49:23.753 align:middle line:84% even to the biosphere, like the planet. 01:49:23.753 --> 01:49:26.260 align:middle line:90% 01:49:26.260 --> 01:49:29.920 align:middle line:84% And I'll say that publicly without embarrassment, which 01:49:29.920 --> 01:49:31.670 align:middle line:84% not because it's quote-unquote true, 01:49:31.670 --> 01:49:37.390 align:middle line:84% but because it certainly appears to me that may be plausible. 01:49:37.390 --> 01:49:40.420 align:middle line:90% Go ahead. 01:49:40.420 --> 01:49:43.090 align:middle line:84% Just a general point about your question 01:49:43.090 --> 01:49:46.780 align:middle line:84% and the other questions, is that isn't it 01:49:46.780 --> 01:49:49.990 align:middle line:84% saying something that at this point in time 01:49:49.990 --> 01:49:53.880 align:middle line:84% we're allowed to ask questions like you're asking, 01:49:53.880 --> 01:49:57.120 align:middle line:84% and these questions are on everybody's mind. 01:49:57.120 --> 01:50:00.890 align:middle line:84% Climate change, what does it mean to be me? 01:50:00.890 --> 01:50:03.420 align:middle line:90% How am I viewed in society? 01:50:03.420 --> 01:50:06.980 align:middle line:84% It's like that says something about the condition 01:50:06.980 --> 01:50:11.090 align:middle line:84% of the world, and our idea of how precarious things are right 01:50:11.090 --> 01:50:12.560 align:middle line:90% now. 01:50:12.560 --> 01:50:17.780 align:middle line:90% Just one small contribution. 01:50:17.780 --> 01:50:22.700 align:middle line:84% I would also add that there is nothing wrong with denigrating 01:50:22.700 --> 01:50:24.380 align:middle line:90% what makes us-- 01:50:24.380 --> 01:50:26.010 align:middle line:84% what makes a culture and a society. 01:50:26.010 --> 01:50:28.340 align:middle line:84% Because that's after all, is the story of that society 01:50:28.340 --> 01:50:30.000 align:middle line:90% individualism, for example. 01:50:30.000 --> 01:50:35.730 align:middle line:84% There's nothing wrong about acknowledging one's individual, 01:50:35.730 --> 01:50:37.080 align:middle line:90% for example, accomplishment. 01:50:37.080 --> 01:50:40.920 align:middle line:84% I gave the example of earning a degree in college, 01:50:40.920 --> 01:50:43.700 align:middle line:84% particularly for those groups that 01:50:43.700 --> 01:50:47.120 align:middle line:84% tend to be marginalized in society, 01:50:47.120 --> 01:50:49.500 align:middle line:84% acknowledging their contributions. 01:50:49.500 --> 01:50:51.270 align:middle line:84% Those are individual contributions 01:50:51.270 --> 01:50:54.190 align:middle line:84% because it's not like everybody in that for example, 01:50:54.190 --> 01:50:56.320 align:middle line:90% ethnic group, did this. 01:50:56.320 --> 01:50:57.490 align:middle line:90% It's one person within. 01:50:57.490 --> 01:51:02.590 align:middle line:84% So the acknowledgment of individuality. 01:51:02.590 --> 01:51:05.760 align:middle line:84% The other-- what I see that's dangerous 01:51:05.760 --> 01:51:10.690 align:middle line:84% is when the value individuality or the illusion of individual, 01:51:10.690 --> 01:51:16.740 align:middle line:84% of individuality becomes the ideology by which those 01:51:16.740 --> 01:51:18.960 align:middle line:84% that have greater power and wealth 01:51:18.960 --> 01:51:20.980 align:middle line:90% oppress the rest of society. 01:51:20.980 --> 01:51:22.080 align:middle line:90% That's what's wrong. 01:51:22.080 --> 01:51:24.260 align:middle line:90% Anyway, that's-- 01:51:24.260 --> 01:51:24.760 align:middle line:90% Great. 01:51:24.760 --> 01:51:25.260 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:51:25.260 --> 01:51:25.850 align:middle line:90% Appreciate it. 01:51:25.850 --> 01:51:26.350 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:51:26.350 --> 01:51:27.390 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 01:51:27.390 --> 01:51:28.360 align:middle line:90% Just real briefly. 01:51:28.360 --> 01:51:29.590 align:middle line:90% Alex, you're up next. 01:51:29.590 --> 01:51:33.060 align:middle line:84% But briefly, it's really, really important to acknowledge that we 01:51:33.060 --> 01:51:34.720 align:middle line:90% are at 12:30. 01:51:34.720 --> 01:51:38.140 align:middle line:84% And so we were supposed to wrap up at 12:20. 01:51:38.140 --> 01:51:41.100 align:middle line:84% Some folks, as a matter of fact, Brody is meeting a class 01:51:41.100 --> 01:51:43.750 align:middle line:84% at 12:30, so he's actually a little late for class. 01:51:43.750 --> 01:51:45.030 align:middle line:90% So we need to-- 01:51:45.030 --> 01:51:46.210 align:middle line:90% we don't have to wrap up. 01:51:46.210 --> 01:51:47.668 align:middle line:84% We can keep going, but we just need 01:51:47.668 --> 01:51:50.540 align:middle line:84% to respect people's time if they need to be someplace else. 01:51:50.540 --> 01:51:52.690 align:middle line:84% So could we please give the panelists 01:51:52.690 --> 01:51:54.380 align:middle line:90% a huge hand of applause-- 01:51:54.380 --> 01:51:55.480 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 01:51:55.480 --> 01:51:58.310 align:middle line:84% If panelists need to split, split. 01:51:58.310 --> 01:52:00.190 align:middle line:90% And if you need to split, split. 01:52:00.190 --> 01:52:02.710 align:middle line:90% And if you want to stay, I-- 01:52:02.710 --> 01:52:04.060 align:middle line:90% are you guys OK with? 01:52:04.060 --> 01:52:05.833 align:middle line:90% OK yeah. 01:52:05.833 --> 01:52:07.000 align:middle line:90% Just for-- to let you know-- 01:52:07.000 --> 01:52:09.640 align:middle line:84% I think-- I know we have one more-- we have one more 01:52:09.640 --> 01:52:10.700 align:middle line:90% question for sure. 01:52:10.700 --> 01:52:11.200 align:middle line:90% Hello. 01:52:11.200 --> 01:52:14.870 align:middle line:84% So I suppose when I first walked in here, 01:52:14.870 --> 01:52:16.900 align:middle line:84% I thought I had at least for humans because 01:52:16.900 --> 01:52:20.150 align:middle line:84% for other organisms besides humans, the idea of an identity, 01:52:20.150 --> 01:52:22.250 align:middle line:84% if it's one exists at all or not, 01:52:22.250 --> 01:52:25.330 align:middle line:84% is something I don't know how to define. 01:52:25.330 --> 01:52:27.550 align:middle line:84% But for humans at least, I originally 01:52:27.550 --> 01:52:30.340 align:middle line:84% thought that the self, or at least somewhat 01:52:30.340 --> 01:52:32.240 align:middle line:84% of a definition that I could apply, 01:52:32.240 --> 01:52:35.380 align:middle line:84% is the experiences the person has 01:52:35.380 --> 01:52:38.750 align:middle line:84% and the thoughts that they tend to have, 01:52:38.750 --> 01:52:41.750 align:middle line:84% whether it's regarding those experiences or otherwise. 01:52:41.750 --> 01:52:44.990 align:middle line:84% But as I started to watch through the presentations, 01:52:44.990 --> 01:52:48.040 align:middle line:84% it's like, oh, well, your thoughts 01:52:48.040 --> 01:52:49.760 align:middle line:90% weren't originally your own. 01:52:49.760 --> 01:52:52.670 align:middle line:84% Perhaps, they could have been not necessarily implanted, 01:52:52.670 --> 01:52:55.520 align:middle line:84% but supplied by your parents or by your environment. 01:52:55.520 --> 01:52:59.330 align:middle line:84% Even your experiences, yes, they're unique. 01:52:59.330 --> 01:53:02.080 align:middle line:84% Like, not everyone has experienced everything 01:53:02.080 --> 01:53:03.140 align:middle line:90% all the time. 01:53:03.140 --> 01:53:04.810 align:middle line:84% But there are undoubtedly other people 01:53:04.810 --> 01:53:06.520 align:middle line:84% who have experienced something, and it 01:53:06.520 --> 01:53:07.940 align:middle line:90% doesn't have to be the same. 01:53:07.940 --> 01:53:11.390 align:middle line:84% But then that also implies there's also a slope of like, 01:53:11.390 --> 01:53:12.650 align:middle line:90% where do you draw the line? 01:53:12.650 --> 01:53:16.210 align:middle line:84% And so I thought about this and then I remembered back 01:53:16.210 --> 01:53:19.670 align:middle line:84% to the presentation regarding art, where it's like, oh, 01:53:19.670 --> 01:53:22.750 align:middle line:84% every artist places a part of themselves within it 01:53:22.750 --> 01:53:24.650 align:middle line:90% or something like that. 01:53:24.650 --> 01:53:27.820 align:middle line:84% And my question was, what are your thoughts in regards 01:53:27.820 --> 01:53:30.560 align:middle line:84% to the interpretations a person has? 01:53:30.560 --> 01:53:33.790 align:middle line:84% Would they be given the same meaning 01:53:33.790 --> 01:53:36.370 align:middle line:84% as an experience where yes, not everyone experiences 01:53:36.370 --> 01:53:38.800 align:middle line:84% the same thing, but different types of people 01:53:38.800 --> 01:53:40.100 align:middle line:90% can interpret the same thing? 01:53:40.100 --> 01:53:42.830 align:middle line:90% And so it's like that. 01:53:42.830 --> 01:53:45.830 align:middle line:84% Or does something a person experienced 01:53:45.830 --> 01:53:48.410 align:middle line:84% in how they relate that experience to themselves 01:53:48.410 --> 01:53:50.260 align:middle line:90% changes perspective as well? 01:53:50.260 --> 01:53:53.090 align:middle line:90% 01:53:53.090 --> 01:53:55.950 align:middle line:90% Sorry, it's a hard question. 01:53:55.950 --> 01:53:59.570 align:middle line:84% Yeah, a question in philosophy of perception and other areas 01:53:59.570 --> 01:54:02.540 align:middle line:84% called hermeneutics, which is interpretation, right, whatever. 01:54:02.540 --> 01:54:03.570 align:middle line:90% I mentioned Gadamer. 01:54:03.570 --> 01:54:05.340 align:middle line:84% So I'll just give-- here's a quick model. 01:54:05.340 --> 01:54:09.570 align:middle line:84% And it's basically that we all-- every perceiving being 01:54:09.570 --> 01:54:11.570 align:middle line:84% and maybe we can include perceiving animals that 01:54:11.570 --> 01:54:14.610 align:middle line:84% have some capacity for this, maybe even more than that. 01:54:14.610 --> 01:54:17.840 align:middle line:84% But we come to every encounter-- hermeneutical encounter 01:54:17.840 --> 01:54:20.363 align:middle line:84% with an object, with a text, with a person, 01:54:20.363 --> 01:54:21.780 align:middle line:84% with something in our environment, 01:54:21.780 --> 01:54:23.720 align:middle line:84% with all that we are, which is mostly 01:54:23.720 --> 01:54:26.270 align:middle line:84% stuff programmed into us genetically and socially 01:54:26.270 --> 01:54:27.140 align:middle line:90% or whatever. 01:54:27.140 --> 01:54:29.983 align:middle line:84% And that thing has all of its stuff behind it. 01:54:29.983 --> 01:54:32.400 align:middle line:84% And it's like this Venn diagram, the term he uses horizon. 01:54:32.400 --> 01:54:35.550 align:middle line:84% So my horizons, your horizons, the art object in art, 01:54:35.550 --> 01:54:38.030 align:middle line:84% the object may be hidden in the art. 01:54:38.030 --> 01:54:42.620 align:middle line:84% And at each time there's a creative enterprise there. 01:54:42.620 --> 01:54:45.010 align:middle line:84% Every time I see art and you see the same piece of art, 01:54:45.010 --> 01:54:45.760 align:middle line:90% we're saying it's the same. 01:54:45.760 --> 01:54:47.343 align:middle line:84% We can even debate whether it's really 01:54:47.343 --> 01:54:49.450 align:middle line:84% the same piece at any given moment. 01:54:49.450 --> 01:54:50.980 align:middle line:90% But we create something. 01:54:50.980 --> 01:54:52.590 align:middle line:90% We create meaning. 01:54:52.590 --> 01:54:55.385 align:middle line:84% We create something and that it's based on who you are, 01:54:55.385 --> 01:54:56.760 align:middle line:84% what you bring to the table, what 01:54:56.760 --> 01:54:59.340 align:middle line:84% that is in some ways, and other things 01:54:59.340 --> 01:55:01.890 align:middle line:84% I can even environmentally-- other things that are now 01:55:01.890 --> 01:55:03.430 align:middle line:90% fusing with your horizon. 01:55:03.430 --> 01:55:05.160 align:middle line:84% So the fusion of horizons is this model 01:55:05.160 --> 01:55:07.740 align:middle line:84% for the creation of meaning or the hermeneutical exchange 01:55:07.740 --> 01:55:08.500 align:middle line:90% of meaning. 01:55:08.500 --> 01:55:13.500 align:middle line:84% And so yeah, I don't privilege any particular perceiver 01:55:13.500 --> 01:55:15.310 align:middle line:84% or horizon or any interpretation. 01:55:15.310 --> 01:55:18.238 align:middle line:84% I think it's always a subjective enterprise at every time. 01:55:18.238 --> 01:55:19.030 align:middle line:90% And it's beautiful. 01:55:19.030 --> 01:55:20.405 align:middle line:84% I think there's a metaphor that's 01:55:20.405 --> 01:55:23.230 align:middle line:84% really creative and existential, I'm creating meaning every day. 01:55:23.230 --> 01:55:25.480 align:middle line:84% You're creating meaning every day with every exchange, 01:55:25.480 --> 01:55:27.730 align:middle line:84% with every text, with every object, with every person, 01:55:27.730 --> 01:55:29.425 align:middle line:90% with every part of-- 01:55:29.425 --> 01:55:32.050 align:middle line:84% yeah, so I don't know if that's exactly what you're getting at, 01:55:32.050 --> 01:55:34.495 align:middle line:84% but I think that, yeah, we are all-- 01:55:34.495 --> 01:55:36.120 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't say entitled to-- but we all 01:55:36.120 --> 01:55:38.327 align:middle line:90% are invariably doing that. 01:55:38.327 --> 01:55:40.410 align:middle line:84% And that's one of the beautiful things about being 01:55:40.410 --> 01:55:41.580 align:middle line:90% a perceiver in the world. 01:55:41.580 --> 01:55:43.100 align:middle line:84% Yeah, that's what I was going for. 01:55:43.100 --> 01:55:46.630 align:middle line:84% Because for example, I mean, I'm a Christian, so 01:55:46.630 --> 01:55:49.840 align:middle line:84% it's biggest religion in the world currently. 01:55:49.840 --> 01:55:52.760 align:middle line:84% And obviously, it's-- as the biggest religion, 01:55:52.760 --> 01:55:55.270 align:middle line:84% it's not something that's particularly unique, I guess, 01:55:55.270 --> 01:55:56.950 align:middle line:84% like more than half of the world or-- 01:55:56.950 --> 01:55:58.925 align:middle line:84% I forget the numbers, but a large percentage-- 01:55:58.925 --> 01:56:00.050 align:middle line:90% 2 point something billion-- 01:56:00.050 --> 01:56:01.000 align:middle line:90% 2 point something. 01:56:01.000 --> 01:56:02.060 align:middle line:90% So definitely not half. 01:56:02.060 --> 01:56:04.750 align:middle line:84% But there are a lot of people who 01:56:04.750 --> 01:56:07.840 align:middle line:84% are also Christian also experience 01:56:07.840 --> 01:56:09.200 align:middle line:90% that in different ways. 01:56:09.200 --> 01:56:11.352 align:middle line:84% My family isn't the most religious, per se, 01:56:11.352 --> 01:56:12.560 align:middle line:90% but they're still Christians. 01:56:12.560 --> 01:56:14.435 align:middle line:84% And then there are others that are basically, 01:56:14.435 --> 01:56:17.540 align:middle line:84% I don't want to say zealots or implied negative connotation, 01:56:17.540 --> 01:56:20.650 align:middle line:84% but they follow the doctrines within the Bible 01:56:20.650 --> 01:56:23.960 align:middle line:84% or even if in the different religion faithfully. 01:56:23.960 --> 01:56:27.610 align:middle line:84% So I was wondering that because obviously a lot of people 01:56:27.610 --> 01:56:29.140 align:middle line:84% experience religion in their own way 01:56:29.140 --> 01:56:31.750 align:middle line:84% and they all differ, but in the interpretation 01:56:31.750 --> 01:56:33.850 align:middle line:84% people pull from them was somewhat different. 01:56:33.850 --> 01:56:34.850 align:middle line:90% So that was my question. 01:56:34.850 --> 01:56:35.780 align:middle line:90% But yeah, you answered it. 01:56:35.780 --> 01:56:36.170 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:56:36.170 --> 01:56:37.587 align:middle line:84% Yeah, the same thing there that we 01:56:37.587 --> 01:56:39.610 align:middle line:84% all come to our religious experiences 01:56:39.610 --> 01:56:42.650 align:middle line:84% and each moment of that in our own ways, even our own families. 01:56:42.650 --> 01:56:43.960 align:middle line:84% We may not share all the doctrines and beliefs 01:56:43.960 --> 01:56:45.293 align:middle line:90% of our parents, of our siblings. 01:56:45.293 --> 01:56:47.560 align:middle line:84% That's another evolutionary journey 01:56:47.560 --> 01:56:48.800 align:middle line:90% in the creation of meaning. 01:56:48.800 --> 01:56:49.550 align:middle line:90% So yeah. 01:56:49.550 --> 01:56:52.390 align:middle line:90% Fair good. 01:56:52.390 --> 01:56:53.560 align:middle line:90% Thank you so much, Alex. 01:56:53.560 --> 01:56:55.390 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:56:55.390 --> 01:56:58.420 align:middle line:84% Well, I think that was the wrap-up question, unless anybody 01:56:58.420 --> 01:56:59.490 align:middle line:90% has anything else. 01:56:59.490 --> 01:57:02.050 align:middle line:90% 01:57:02.050 --> 01:57:03.050 align:middle line:90% All right. 01:57:03.050 --> 01:57:05.050 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE], thank you so much. 01:57:05.050 --> 01:57:06.920 align:middle line:90% Thank you so, so much. 01:57:06.920 --> 01:57:10.330 align:middle line:90% And yeah-- and applause. 01:57:10.330 --> 01:57:10.850 align:middle line:90% Oh, man. 01:57:10.850 --> 01:57:13.180 align:middle line:90% That was amazing. 01:57:13.180 --> 01:57:16.132 align:middle line:84% Beautiful have a, yeah-- have a beautiful rest 01:57:16.132 --> 01:57:17.090 align:middle line:90% of your day, everybody. 01:57:17.090 --> 01:57:20.140 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 01:57:20.140 --> 01:58:38.000 align:middle line:90%