WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.810 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:00:10.810 --> 00:00:12.280 align:middle line:90% Hello, everyone and welcome. 00:00:12.280 --> 00:00:14.560 align:middle line:84% Thank you for joining us today's program 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:18.820 align:middle line:84% featuring author Isabel Quintero and artist Zeke Pena, 00:00:18.820 --> 00:00:22.330 align:middle line:84% presented as part of the Wignall Museum's Home Edition. 00:00:22.330 --> 00:00:25.250 align:middle line:84% Home Edition is a series of curated artists talks, 00:00:25.250 --> 00:00:27.010 align:middle line:84% workshops, and discussions featuring 00:00:27.010 --> 00:00:29.145 align:middle line:90% artists and cultural workers. 00:00:29.145 --> 00:00:30.520 align:middle line:84% My name is Rebecca Trawick, and I 00:00:30.520 --> 00:00:33.070 align:middle line:84% serve as the director and curator of the Wignall Museum 00:00:33.070 --> 00:00:34.780 align:middle line:90% at 性视界. 00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:36.820 align:middle line:84% The Wignall Museum is a teaching museum, 00:00:36.820 --> 00:00:40.330 align:middle line:84% an interdisciplinary arts space that introduces 性视界 00:00:40.330 --> 00:00:43.990 align:middle line:84% students, faculty, staff, and community members 00:00:43.990 --> 00:00:47.300 align:middle line:84% to innovative contemporary art objects and ideas. 00:00:47.300 --> 00:00:51.050 align:middle line:84% By fostering critical thinking, visual literacy, discourse, 00:00:51.050 --> 00:00:53.650 align:middle line:84% and empathy, the museum seeks to enhance 00:00:53.650 --> 00:00:57.840 align:middle line:84% the intellectual and cultural life of our community. 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.470 align:middle line:84% We want to take a moment to recognize that we are situated 00:01:00.470 --> 00:01:03.800 align:middle line:84% on the Rancho Cucamonga campus of 性视界, which 00:01:03.800 --> 00:01:06.680 align:middle line:84% resides on the traditional and unceded lands of the Tongva 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:07.860 align:middle line:90% people. 00:01:07.860 --> 00:01:09.710 align:middle line:84% We offer our recognition and respect 00:01:09.710 --> 00:01:13.820 align:middle line:84% to the elders both past, present and future. 00:01:13.820 --> 00:01:14.450 align:middle line:90% Hi, everyone. 00:01:14.450 --> 00:01:17.780 align:middle line:84% My name is Andy Hadle, I'm the preparator at the museum, 00:01:17.780 --> 00:01:20.350 align:middle line:84% I will be assisting Rebecca and Roman with today's Zoom 00:01:20.350 --> 00:01:20.890 align:middle line:90% session. 00:01:20.890 --> 00:01:22.900 align:middle line:84% Hello, my name is Roman Stollenwerk, 00:01:22.900 --> 00:01:25.840 align:middle line:84% I'm assistant curator at the Wignall Museum. 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:30.850 align:middle line:84% Visit us at www.chaffey.edu/wignall 00:01:30.850 --> 00:01:33.580 align:middle line:84% to access our full schedule of programs and available 00:01:33.580 --> 00:01:34.630 align:middle line:90% recordings. 00:01:34.630 --> 00:01:37.630 align:middle line:84% When possible, recordings are made available on our website. 00:01:37.630 --> 00:01:40.420 align:middle line:84% Announcements post to our email subscribers and social media 00:01:40.420 --> 00:01:42.680 align:middle line:90% when new videos are available. 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:45.040 align:middle line:84% All recordings on our site include captions and audio 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:47.140 align:middle line:90% descriptions as options. 00:01:47.140 --> 00:01:48.710 align:middle line:84% You can follow us on social media, 00:01:48.710 --> 00:01:53.780 align:middle line:84% including Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at Wignall Museum. 00:01:53.780 --> 00:01:56.270 align:middle line:84% Visit our website About Us page if you'd 00:01:56.270 --> 00:01:59.480 align:middle line:84% like to sign up to receive email announcements. 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:02.060 align:middle line:84% And we also ask that you complete a brief survey after 00:02:02.060 --> 00:02:05.900 align:middle line:84% the session at tinyurl.com/wign allspring21visitorsurvey. 00:02:05.900 --> 00:02:08.840 align:middle line:90% 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:10.380 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:02:10.380 --> 00:02:11.550 align:middle line:90% Thanks, Roman and Andy. 00:02:11.550 --> 00:02:13.290 align:middle line:84% So today I have the honor of introducing 00:02:13.290 --> 00:02:18.210 align:middle line:84% our guest artist, author Isabel Quintero and artist Zeke Pena. 00:02:18.210 --> 00:02:20.580 align:middle line:84% Zeke Pena makes comics and visual narratives 00:02:20.580 --> 00:02:23.610 align:middle line:84% to reclaim stories and remix history. 00:02:23.610 --> 00:02:26.160 align:middle line:84% Pena was born in Las Cruces New Mexico 00:02:26.160 --> 00:02:28.740 align:middle line:90% and grew up in El Paso, Texas. 00:02:28.740 --> 00:02:31.890 align:middle line:84% While doodling in the margins of his notebook, 00:02:31.890 --> 00:02:33.930 align:middle line:84% he received a degree in art history 00:02:33.930 --> 00:02:36.870 align:middle line:84% from the University of Texas at Austin. 00:02:36.870 --> 00:02:40.390 align:middle line:84% His work uses a mash up of political cartoon, 00:02:40.390 --> 00:02:44.010 align:middle line:84% border rasquache, and hip hop culture 00:02:44.010 --> 00:02:48.210 align:middle line:84% to address universal themes of identity, politics, ecology, 00:02:48.210 --> 00:02:50.070 align:middle line:90% and social justice. 00:02:50.070 --> 00:02:52.290 align:middle line:84% He has won awards for his book illustrations, 00:02:52.290 --> 00:02:54.540 align:middle line:84% and his work is in several collections 00:02:54.540 --> 00:02:56.910 align:middle line:90% of American and Chicano art. 00:02:56.910 --> 00:02:59.190 align:middle line:84% Pena is currently digging into family history 00:02:59.190 --> 00:03:02.290 align:middle line:84% to write stories for future projects. 00:03:02.290 --> 00:03:06.120 align:middle line:84% Isabel Quintero is an award winning author and the daughter 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.130 align:middle line:90% of Mexican immigrants. 00:03:08.130 --> 00:03:11.070 align:middle line:84% She lives and writes in the Inland Empire. 00:03:11.070 --> 00:03:14.520 align:middle line:84% Her first novel, Gabi: A Girl in Pieces, 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:18.000 align:middle line:84% was the recipient of multiple awards and honors. 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:21.540 align:middle line:84% Quintero is the author of the chapter books Ugly Cat 00:03:21.540 --> 00:03:26.250 align:middle line:84% and Pablo, and Ugly Cat and Pablo and the Missing Brother. 00:03:26.250 --> 00:03:30.330 align:middle line:84% In 2016, she was commissioned by the J. Paul Getty museum 00:03:30.330 --> 00:03:33.540 align:middle line:84% to write a non-fiction YA graphic biography 00:03:33.540 --> 00:03:39.720 align:middle line:84% on Mexican photography icon Graciela Iturbide, illustrated 00:03:39.720 --> 00:03:41.220 align:middle line:90% by Zeke Pena. 00:03:41.220 --> 00:03:45.450 align:middle line:84% Photographic went on to win the Boston Globe Foreign Book 00:03:45.450 --> 00:03:48.480 align:middle line:90% Award, among other recognitions. 00:03:48.480 --> 00:03:52.410 align:middle line:84% My Papi has a Motorcycle, also illustrated by Zeke Pena, 00:03:52.410 --> 00:03:59.400 align:middle line:84% was awarded the Tomas Rivera award, and a Pura Belpre honor. 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:02.310 align:middle line:84% Quintero has a story included in the anthology 00:04:02.310 --> 00:04:06.710 align:middle line:90% Come On In, published in 2020. 00:04:06.710 --> 00:04:08.480 align:middle line:84% And I'm happy to announce that Come On In 00:04:08.480 --> 00:04:12.320 align:middle line:84% is the 性视界 One Book, One College official selection 00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:14.400 align:middle line:90% for the upcoming year. 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:17.600 align:middle line:84% So that means the college will teach and study the book 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:20.579 align:middle line:90% during the 21/22 academic year. 00:04:20.579 --> 00:04:23.330 align:middle line:84% So look to the OBOC web page for info 00:04:23.330 --> 00:04:25.980 align:middle line:84% on activities, discussions and events. 00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:29.100 align:middle line:84% I'll include that link in the chat as well. 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:31.940 align:middle line:84% So please join me in welcoming Zeke and Isabel 00:04:31.940 --> 00:04:33.530 align:middle line:90% to Home Edition. 00:04:33.530 --> 00:04:35.700 align:middle line:90% Good afternoon, everyone. 00:04:35.700 --> 00:04:38.630 align:middle line:90% It's really exciting to be here. 00:04:38.630 --> 00:04:40.370 align:middle line:90% Zeke and I are happy. 00:04:40.370 --> 00:04:43.620 align:middle line:84% Well, I hope Zeke is happy to be here. 00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:44.120 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:49.820 align:middle line:84% We're happy to be here and happy to be presenting in the IE, 00:04:49.820 --> 00:04:53.030 align:middle line:90% at least virtually. 00:04:53.030 --> 00:04:56.750 align:middle line:84% So, and I'm excited about the Come On In anthology being part 00:04:56.750 --> 00:04:59.060 align:middle line:90% of the One Book One College. 00:04:59.060 --> 00:05:04.928 align:middle line:84% Addy had told us that it was One Book One College somewhere 00:05:04.928 --> 00:05:06.470 align:middle line:84% in Southern California, but he didn't 00:05:06.470 --> 00:05:08.150 align:middle line:90% mention what college it was at. 00:05:08.150 --> 00:05:13.390 align:middle line:84% So it's kind of nice to be presenting here for that. 00:05:13.390 --> 00:05:14.330 align:middle line:90% Hello, everyone. 00:05:14.330 --> 00:05:16.420 align:middle line:90% Greetings, everyone. 00:05:16.420 --> 00:05:19.250 align:middle line:84% I am Zeke Pena, and thank you so much, 00:05:19.250 --> 00:05:22.480 align:middle line:84% Rebecca and Roman and Andrew and the Wignall Museum 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:25.660 align:middle line:84% for having us and making this space for us. 00:05:25.660 --> 00:05:30.730 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I think we were excited about this opportunity 00:05:30.730 --> 00:05:35.560 align:middle line:84% to maybe try something different that I don't believe-- 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:37.227 align:middle line:84% have we done something like this before? 00:05:37.227 --> 00:05:39.060 align:middle line:84% I don't know we've done something like this. 00:05:39.060 --> 00:05:41.230 align:middle line:84% But we're going to just kind of interview each other 00:05:41.230 --> 00:05:43.300 align:middle line:90% and ask questions. 00:05:43.300 --> 00:05:45.820 align:middle line:84% I have a slideshow of some of our work 00:05:45.820 --> 00:05:49.120 align:middle line:84% that we've done, the collaborations that we 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:52.900 align:middle line:90% have worked on over the years. 00:05:52.900 --> 00:05:56.200 align:middle line:84% And we're also excited to hear any questions 00:05:56.200 --> 00:05:57.440 align:middle line:90% that you all might have. 00:05:57.440 --> 00:05:57.940 align:middle line:90% So, yeah. 00:05:57.940 --> 00:06:02.170 align:middle line:84% We'll be kind of doing like a conversation with each other. 00:06:02.170 --> 00:06:03.728 align:middle line:90% It was between conversation. 00:06:03.728 --> 00:06:05.270 align:middle line:84% We wanted to try something different, 00:06:05.270 --> 00:06:07.660 align:middle line:84% so it was between conversation and dance off, 00:06:07.660 --> 00:06:09.663 align:middle line:90% and we went with conversation. 00:06:09.663 --> 00:06:13.000 align:middle line:90% 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:15.880 align:middle line:84% Only because you know who would win that battle. 00:06:15.880 --> 00:06:16.510 align:middle line:90% Me. 00:06:16.510 --> 00:06:17.380 align:middle line:90% Me, yeah. 00:06:17.380 --> 00:06:19.764 align:middle line:90% Absolutely. 00:06:19.764 --> 00:06:20.650 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:06:20.650 --> 00:06:26.170 align:middle line:84% Yeah, so I really enjoy working with you. 00:06:26.170 --> 00:06:30.580 align:middle line:84% A lot of your work, though, the comics that you make, 00:06:30.580 --> 00:06:35.370 align:middle line:84% the art you make, is personal, right. 00:06:35.370 --> 00:06:37.120 align:middle line:84% A lot of your work is personal, whether it 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.720 align:middle line:84% be work around water issues at the border 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:43.750 align:middle line:84% or stories of growing up in El Paso. 00:06:43.750 --> 00:06:45.940 align:middle line:84% But then you also bring other people's stories 00:06:45.940 --> 00:06:47.860 align:middle line:84% to life with dynamic illustrations 00:06:47.860 --> 00:06:50.710 align:middle line:84% that are thoughtful and revelatory to even 00:06:50.710 --> 00:06:52.300 align:middle line:90% the writer of those stories. 00:06:52.300 --> 00:06:54.695 align:middle line:84% And I speak for myself, and I'm pretty 00:06:54.695 --> 00:06:56.320 align:middle line:84% sure I speak for other writers that you 00:06:56.320 --> 00:06:58.660 align:middle line:90% collaborate with as well. 00:06:58.660 --> 00:07:01.270 align:middle line:84% How did your approach differ between creating 00:07:01.270 --> 00:07:03.250 align:middle line:84% something for yourself and creating 00:07:03.250 --> 00:07:06.810 align:middle line:90% something for someone else? 00:07:06.810 --> 00:07:12.420 align:middle line:84% So I'm trying to think if there is a different approach. 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:15.645 align:middle line:90% I mean, I think that I-- 00:07:15.645 --> 00:07:18.960 align:middle line:84% I feel like I approach them with the same intent, right, 00:07:18.960 --> 00:07:22.020 align:middle line:84% and at the heart of my work is always 00:07:22.020 --> 00:07:25.410 align:middle line:84% story, which I think you can relate to that also, 00:07:25.410 --> 00:07:28.410 align:middle line:90% as a writer. 00:07:28.410 --> 00:07:31.190 align:middle line:90% And it's honoring that story. 00:07:31.190 --> 00:07:32.960 align:middle line:84% I think first and foremost, it's honoring 00:07:32.960 --> 00:07:35.060 align:middle line:90% the people whose story it is. 00:07:35.060 --> 00:07:37.610 align:middle line:90% 00:07:37.610 --> 00:07:40.010 align:middle line:84% I think it's also an interesting question 00:07:40.010 --> 00:07:42.740 align:middle line:84% because I feel like the stories that I make about myself are 00:07:42.740 --> 00:07:46.430 align:middle line:84% in some ways, always about the other people that make me 00:07:46.430 --> 00:07:47.520 align:middle line:90% who I am. 00:07:47.520 --> 00:07:49.250 align:middle line:84% So if I'm telling a story about me, 00:07:49.250 --> 00:07:52.430 align:middle line:84% it's actually I'm telling a story about my grandfather 00:07:52.430 --> 00:07:57.920 align:middle line:84% or my grandmother or my parents or my family or something. 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:01.640 align:middle line:84% And always kind of wanting to acknowledge that, that those 00:08:01.640 --> 00:08:04.970 align:middle line:84% are the things that make me who I am. 00:08:04.970 --> 00:08:12.350 align:middle line:84% And then I think in working with community over the years, 00:08:12.350 --> 00:08:15.350 align:middle line:90% it's about telling that story. 00:08:15.350 --> 00:08:17.990 align:middle line:84% Participating and collaborating and telling that story 00:08:17.990 --> 00:08:20.450 align:middle line:90% with other people. 00:08:20.450 --> 00:08:22.820 align:middle line:84% And the thing that I talk a lot about, I guess, 00:08:22.820 --> 00:08:24.470 align:middle line:84% when I'm giving other presentations, 00:08:24.470 --> 00:08:30.310 align:middle line:84% and you've probably heard me say before is that I don't-- 00:08:30.310 --> 00:08:34.690 align:middle line:84% I try not to elevate or put on a pedestal too much what I do. 00:08:34.690 --> 00:08:38.530 align:middle line:84% I see myself as having a set of skills 00:08:38.530 --> 00:08:41.350 align:middle line:84% and really just trying to be a tool for the community. 00:08:41.350 --> 00:08:44.260 align:middle line:84% So I am something or someone that people 00:08:44.260 --> 00:08:47.230 align:middle line:84% can tap to say, hey, we need help with this project 00:08:47.230 --> 00:08:49.090 align:middle line:90% or we need help doing this. 00:08:49.090 --> 00:08:54.310 align:middle line:84% And I think that that definitely changes my approach 00:08:54.310 --> 00:09:00.500 align:middle line:84% when I'm working on a project towards just 00:09:00.500 --> 00:09:06.430 align:middle line:84% focusing on what the story is that the people are trying 00:09:06.430 --> 00:09:06.930 align:middle line:90% to tell. 00:09:06.930 --> 00:09:09.170 align:middle line:84% So for you and I, to get specific to some 00:09:09.170 --> 00:09:11.900 align:middle line:84% of the collaborations that you and I have worked on, 00:09:11.900 --> 00:09:14.150 align:middle line:84% that's why I'm always asking you questions 00:09:14.150 --> 00:09:15.830 align:middle line:90% when we work on something. 00:09:15.830 --> 00:09:18.200 align:middle line:84% I'm always like, OK, well, what does this mean, 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:22.460 align:middle line:84% or what connection does this have for you. 00:09:22.460 --> 00:09:25.970 align:middle line:84% And then also just specific things about characters, 00:09:25.970 --> 00:09:29.340 align:middle line:90% what would this character do? 00:09:29.340 --> 00:09:32.060 align:middle line:90% How does this character look? 00:09:32.060 --> 00:09:36.050 align:middle line:84% And I think-- and it's something that we found out, 00:09:36.050 --> 00:09:38.450 align:middle line:84% that our experience at Cinco Puntos Press. 00:09:38.450 --> 00:09:42.260 align:middle line:84% And for those people who are unfamiliar, Gabi: 00:09:42.260 --> 00:09:44.540 align:middle line:84% A Girl in Pieces, the slides you're looking at right 00:09:44.540 --> 00:09:48.950 align:middle line:84% now was how Isabel and I met through a book that 00:09:48.950 --> 00:09:52.220 align:middle line:84% was published by Cinco Puntos Press. 00:09:52.220 --> 00:09:54.590 align:middle line:84% And it was both of our-- it was my first time 00:09:54.590 --> 00:09:58.400 align:middle line:84% having my work published by the book industry, 00:09:58.400 --> 00:10:03.560 align:middle line:84% and it was Isabel's first formally published work 00:10:03.560 --> 00:10:08.100 align:middle line:84% by a book publisher, and we collaborated on that. 00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:09.740 align:middle line:84% And what you and I found out, right, 00:10:09.740 --> 00:10:13.340 align:middle line:84% was that it was unique for us to be able to even have 00:10:13.340 --> 00:10:16.880 align:middle line:90% conversation with each other. 00:10:16.880 --> 00:10:19.080 align:middle line:84% So I'll throw the question back to you. 00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:20.690 align:middle line:84% It's a similar question, which is, 00:10:20.690 --> 00:10:23.840 align:middle line:84% the difference between working on photographic, which 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:25.970 align:middle line:84% is the slides that you are looking at right now, 00:10:25.970 --> 00:10:30.770 align:middle line:84% The Life of Graciela Iturbide, and then us, either are you 00:10:30.770 --> 00:10:35.870 align:middle line:84% writing Gabi, or working on My Papi Has a Motorcycle. 00:10:35.870 --> 00:10:39.710 align:middle line:84% So how does that differ for you and your approach? 00:10:39.710 --> 00:10:41.180 align:middle line:84% I like what you said about intent. 00:10:41.180 --> 00:10:44.540 align:middle line:84% And I was about to ask you my least favorite question 00:10:44.540 --> 00:10:47.930 align:middle line:84% that you ask me, what do you want the audience to get out 00:10:47.930 --> 00:10:49.160 align:middle line:90% of your work. 00:10:49.160 --> 00:10:52.340 align:middle line:90% 00:10:52.340 --> 00:10:54.780 align:middle line:84% And you make me think about that. 00:10:54.780 --> 00:10:57.260 align:middle line:84% So it's a different thing that I have 00:10:57.260 --> 00:11:02.270 align:middle line:84% to think about from when I'm writing the personal 00:11:02.270 --> 00:11:06.830 align:middle line:84% and then I'm writing, for example, Graciela Iturbide's 00:11:06.830 --> 00:11:08.460 align:middle line:90% life, right? 00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:15.080 align:middle line:84% I think one of the obvious differences is for example, 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:16.780 align:middle line:84% My Papi Has a Motorcycle is based 00:11:16.780 --> 00:11:21.550 align:middle line:84% on a memory of me riding on the back of my dad's motorcycle 00:11:21.550 --> 00:11:22.268 align:middle line:90% as a kid. 00:11:22.268 --> 00:11:24.310 align:middle line:84% So if you read the book, there's an author's note 00:11:24.310 --> 00:11:26.442 align:middle line:84% in the end that pretty much explains 00:11:26.442 --> 00:11:27.400 align:middle line:90% what the book is about. 00:11:27.400 --> 00:11:31.374 align:middle line:84% It's a love story for Cornona, those of you from the IE. 00:11:31.374 --> 00:11:36.850 align:middle line:84% It's a love letter to Corona and a love letter to my dad. 00:11:36.850 --> 00:11:43.600 align:middle line:84% And so I have my memory to excavate for that book. 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:47.260 align:middle line:84% I can dig through my memory, I can dig through the feelings 00:11:47.260 --> 00:11:50.740 align:middle line:84% that I know I had when I rode on the back of my dad's 00:11:50.740 --> 00:11:51.640 align:middle line:90% motorcycle. 00:11:51.640 --> 00:11:56.830 align:middle line:84% I can feel the connection I have with a certain location, 00:11:56.830 --> 00:11:58.690 align:middle line:84% geography-- that's my child screaming, 00:11:58.690 --> 00:12:00.160 align:middle line:84% so if that's what you're hearing, 00:12:00.160 --> 00:12:03.730 align:middle line:84% he's screaming in the background. 00:12:03.730 --> 00:12:10.690 align:middle line:84% So that relatability to space, to a specific location. 00:12:10.690 --> 00:12:12.580 align:middle line:90% And that's all very personal. 00:12:12.580 --> 00:12:15.880 align:middle line:84% And I can I know where Cupid's is, 00:12:15.880 --> 00:12:18.310 align:middle line:84% and I know how I felt when they covered it 00:12:18.310 --> 00:12:23.350 align:middle line:84% up with now the Taco shop thing, and so it's just the outline. 00:12:23.350 --> 00:12:30.040 align:middle line:84% But for something photographic, I'm having to not-- 00:12:30.040 --> 00:12:31.450 align:middle line:90% I don't have that access. 00:12:31.450 --> 00:12:35.350 align:middle line:84% I don't have the access to those memories, to that experience 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:36.740 align:middle line:90% or to those feelings. 00:12:36.740 --> 00:12:39.100 align:middle line:90% And so I'm dependent on-- 00:12:39.100 --> 00:12:44.710 align:middle line:84% I was dependent not only on Graciela, 00:12:44.710 --> 00:12:49.570 align:middle line:84% because even a lot of it, we sent Graciela questions, 00:12:49.570 --> 00:12:53.410 align:middle line:84% but we'd get the responses from her assistant. 00:12:53.410 --> 00:12:55.150 align:middle line:90% Like sometimes she'd answer-- 00:12:55.150 --> 00:12:58.090 align:middle line:84% she's also older-- sometimes she answers, but sometimes 00:12:58.090 --> 00:13:00.150 align:middle line:90% her assistant would answer. 00:13:00.150 --> 00:13:06.100 align:middle line:84% And so now it's more degrees of separation. 00:13:06.100 --> 00:13:10.300 align:middle line:84% And even more so when I'm digging through interviews. 00:13:10.300 --> 00:13:15.010 align:middle line:84% Now how I'm looking through an interview of not only what 00:13:15.010 --> 00:13:19.120 align:middle line:84% she said about a certain thing about process, 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:22.840 align:middle line:84% but on how the interviewer-- like what did they cut, 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:24.910 align:middle line:90% what did they keep. 00:13:24.910 --> 00:13:31.390 align:middle line:84% And so I feel like I had to do a lot more-- 00:13:31.390 --> 00:13:34.180 align:middle line:84% I just had to be way more careful. 00:13:34.180 --> 00:13:38.530 align:middle line:84% Way more careful because one, this 00:13:38.530 --> 00:13:40.360 align:middle line:84% is somebody else's story that was entrusted 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:44.410 align:middle line:90% to me to bring to an audience. 00:13:44.410 --> 00:13:48.670 align:middle line:84% And two, she's alive still, so it's not 00:13:48.670 --> 00:13:50.950 align:middle line:84% like I'm writing about an artist who's 00:13:50.950 --> 00:13:55.370 align:middle line:84% passed away who I only have to worry about their ghost. 00:13:55.370 --> 00:14:01.240 align:middle line:84% I have to worry about Graciela being upset that I didn't 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.040 align:middle line:90% do a good job with their story. 00:14:03.040 --> 00:14:10.210 align:middle line:84% And then also, my interpretation of all of that-- 00:14:10.210 --> 00:14:13.160 align:middle line:84% I don't know, it's not a book report. 00:14:13.160 --> 00:14:15.520 align:middle line:84% Like these things happen, it's not just the timeline. 00:14:15.520 --> 00:14:17.610 align:middle line:84% It's like an actual story, it's a narrative. 00:14:17.610 --> 00:14:22.750 align:middle line:84% And so I had to figure out how I wanted to present that. 00:14:22.750 --> 00:14:28.270 align:middle line:84% And ultimately, after going back and forth, 00:14:28.270 --> 00:14:29.650 align:middle line:90% we ended up doing it-- 00:14:29.650 --> 00:14:32.320 align:middle line:84% ended up writing a little bit more lyrical than what 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:37.480 align:middle line:90% I had initially aimed for. 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:42.648 align:middle line:90% So yeah, it's a weird dance. 00:14:42.648 --> 00:14:44.690 align:middle line:84% That makes me think of one of the other questions 00:14:44.690 --> 00:14:47.900 align:middle line:84% that I was thinking about asking you which is, if you 00:14:47.900 --> 00:14:51.080 align:middle line:90% could talk a little bit about-- 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:55.190 align:middle line:84% because you practice writing in many different ways 00:14:55.190 --> 00:14:59.130 align:middle line:84% and many different forms and kind of modes. 00:14:59.130 --> 00:15:01.400 align:middle line:84% So talking about the lyrical, like 00:15:01.400 --> 00:15:04.160 align:middle line:84% you used some of that lyrical kind of way 00:15:04.160 --> 00:15:06.170 align:middle line:90% of writing in photographic. 00:15:06.170 --> 00:15:11.150 align:middle line:84% Can you talk about how writing poetry 00:15:11.150 --> 00:15:15.080 align:middle line:84% has helped you go on to then develop longer narratives? 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:19.640 align:middle line:84% And kind of the interplay between those two things. 00:15:19.640 --> 00:15:22.910 align:middle line:84% Do you go to one more than the other? 00:15:22.910 --> 00:15:26.060 align:middle line:84% Do you feel more comfortable writing poems 00:15:26.060 --> 00:15:27.740 align:middle line:84% and lyrical stuff more than writing 00:15:27.740 --> 00:15:29.210 align:middle line:90% these longer narratives? 00:15:29.210 --> 00:15:31.880 align:middle line:84% And what has that been like between those two? 00:15:31.880 --> 00:15:36.200 align:middle line:84% If you had asked me in 2012, I would have said poetry. 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:39.860 align:middle line:84% I would have said poetry all the way, 2013. 00:15:39.860 --> 00:15:44.840 align:middle line:84% Because I really hadn't had any real experience writing fiction 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:47.780 align:middle line:84% because that's all I had written was poetry. 00:15:47.780 --> 00:15:51.200 align:middle line:84% And I had envisioned that my first book 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.650 align:middle line:90% would be a collection of poems. 00:15:54.650 --> 00:15:59.120 align:middle line:84% And now, it's been really hard for me 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:02.120 align:middle line:90% to get back into writing poems. 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:03.380 align:middle line:90% It's been a few-- 00:16:03.380 --> 00:16:05.330 align:middle line:84% been a couple of years that I've actually 00:16:05.330 --> 00:16:08.300 align:middle line:90% sat down to write poems. 00:16:08.300 --> 00:16:10.490 align:middle line:84% And part of it was, there was a point where 00:16:10.490 --> 00:16:14.270 align:middle line:84% I was writing poetry, trying to get back into it, 00:16:14.270 --> 00:16:20.580 align:middle line:84% but I found myself really preoccupied with my mom dying. 00:16:20.580 --> 00:16:23.700 align:middle line:84% Like, my head-- like she became mortal. 00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:27.570 align:middle line:84% And now I realized, oh, my mom, someday she's 00:16:27.570 --> 00:16:28.750 align:middle line:90% not going to be here. 00:16:28.750 --> 00:16:31.008 align:middle line:90% And it was very stressful. 00:16:31.008 --> 00:16:32.550 align:middle line:84% And every time I would sit and write, 00:16:32.550 --> 00:16:33.970 align:middle line:90% that's what I would write about. 00:16:33.970 --> 00:16:37.560 align:middle line:84% And I just didn't want to, so I kind of stopped for a minute, 00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:38.280 align:middle line:90% writing poetry. 00:16:38.280 --> 00:16:40.980 align:middle line:84% But poetry is always, always there. 00:16:40.980 --> 00:16:44.880 align:middle line:84% It's been my first love when it comes to writing 00:16:44.880 --> 00:16:47.370 align:middle line:84% and it's helped me in a lot of ways. 00:16:47.370 --> 00:16:49.950 align:middle line:84% So in poetry there a lot of cutting, right? 00:16:49.950 --> 00:16:54.510 align:middle line:84% You've got a little limited space to either tell a story 00:16:54.510 --> 00:16:58.740 align:middle line:84% or to present an image or whatever 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:02.100 align:middle line:84% it is that you're trying to do with a poem. 00:17:02.100 --> 00:17:05.510 align:middle line:90% And you just cut, right. 00:17:05.510 --> 00:17:06.920 align:middle line:90% And so that helps me. 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.200 align:middle line:84% I know you don't believe this, but it helps 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:13.819 align:middle line:90% me cut a lot of the excess. 00:17:13.819 --> 00:17:17.180 align:middle line:90% 00:17:17.180 --> 00:17:18.605 align:middle line:90% And I think I feel-- 00:17:18.605 --> 00:17:21.660 align:middle line:90% 00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:23.640 align:middle line:84% sometimes I feel less attached to it 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:27.180 align:middle line:84% than some other prose writes that I speak to who are like, 00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:30.420 align:middle line:84% oh, I didn't want to cut this whole section or whatever. 00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:32.070 align:middle line:90% And I'm like-- 00:17:32.070 --> 00:17:34.070 align:middle line:90% You feel more free to edit? 00:17:34.070 --> 00:17:36.390 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I feel more free to edit-- 00:17:36.390 --> 00:17:39.120 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I feel more free to edit. 00:17:39.120 --> 00:17:43.140 align:middle line:84% And also, I feel like I worry a lot about language 00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:46.710 align:middle line:84% and what a sentence sounds like, which I know, 00:17:46.710 --> 00:17:50.940 align:middle line:84% probably comes from that, from practicing poetry. 00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:53.010 align:middle line:84% Because how does this sentence sound 00:17:53.010 --> 00:17:55.470 align:middle line:90% when you read it out loud? 00:17:55.470 --> 00:17:59.200 align:middle line:84% What word-- like I really focus on word choice a lot of times. 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:02.800 align:middle line:84% And so it's really helpful, but sometimes it is like, OK, 00:18:02.800 --> 00:18:05.010 align:middle line:90% is it all just like-- 00:18:05.010 --> 00:18:06.330 align:middle line:90% Just say the thing. 00:18:06.330 --> 00:18:07.710 align:middle line:90% Just say the thing. 00:18:07.710 --> 00:18:11.610 align:middle line:84% So then what about that transition then away 00:18:11.610 --> 00:18:16.830 align:middle line:84% from that kind of freedom of like the prose and the poetry, 00:18:16.830 --> 00:18:19.860 align:middle line:84% right, to then having to be very specific 00:18:19.860 --> 00:18:23.070 align:middle line:84% and write a sentence with a period at the end of it 00:18:23.070 --> 00:18:24.510 align:middle line:84% that connects to another sentence 00:18:24.510 --> 00:18:26.010 align:middle line:90% and so on and so forth. 00:18:26.010 --> 00:18:30.120 align:middle line:84% So how was that transition from then going on to write Gabi-- 00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:31.590 align:middle line:84% well, Gabi is interesting, right? 00:18:31.590 --> 00:18:34.800 align:middle line:90% Because it has that in there. 00:18:34.800 --> 00:18:36.840 align:middle line:84% But how has it been moving forward 00:18:36.840 --> 00:18:39.270 align:middle line:84% from that, and that transition away from the poetry? 00:18:39.270 --> 00:18:42.300 align:middle line:84% I don't know if I've ever like moved away completely. 00:18:42.300 --> 00:18:47.730 align:middle line:84% Because like Gabi-- initially Gabi was a novel in verse. 00:18:47.730 --> 00:18:53.843 align:middle line:84% So some of those sections in Gabi are just delineated poems. 00:18:53.843 --> 00:18:55.260 align:middle line:84% I was like, I'm going to just make 00:18:55.260 --> 00:18:59.620 align:middle line:84% this look like a paragraph, and that's what I did. 00:18:59.620 --> 00:19:04.560 align:middle line:90% And in some of my other work-- 00:19:04.560 --> 00:19:06.630 align:middle line:84% interestingly enough in that Come 00:19:06.630 --> 00:19:11.520 align:middle line:84% On In anthology, the story, or the excerpt that's in there, 00:19:11.520 --> 00:19:13.770 align:middle line:84% is actually an excerpt from the novel 00:19:13.770 --> 00:19:19.140 align:middle line:84% I'm working on that, that just got sold, a young adult novel. 00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:22.050 align:middle line:84% And it's like changed completely. 00:19:22.050 --> 00:19:28.950 align:middle line:84% But at one point, that particular novel was, 00:19:28.950 --> 00:19:30.690 align:middle line:84% in my mind I was like, I'm just going 00:19:30.690 --> 00:19:33.903 align:middle line:84% to do chapters of delineated poems. 00:19:33.903 --> 00:19:35.070 align:middle line:90% That's what I'm going to do. 00:19:35.070 --> 00:19:37.577 align:middle line:84% I'm going to do this really experimental thing 00:19:37.577 --> 00:19:38.160 align:middle line:90% and blah blah. 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.740 align:middle line:84% And then I was doing it I was like, oh, my God, I can't-- 00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:43.010 align:middle line:90% I can't do this. 00:19:43.010 --> 00:19:46.380 align:middle line:90% I don't have it in me. 00:19:46.380 --> 00:19:48.420 align:middle line:90% But I don't know. 00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:55.160 align:middle line:84% I just wish I had this great answer for questions like this. 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:56.660 align:middle line:90% Does it get in the way? 00:19:56.660 --> 00:19:59.420 align:middle line:84% I'll ask you a more direct question. 00:19:59.420 --> 00:20:00.980 align:middle line:90% Because it sounds like-- 00:20:00.980 --> 00:20:03.170 align:middle line:84% and so I have a similar experience, 00:20:03.170 --> 00:20:07.113 align:middle line:84% like I'm coming to making comics and making books definitely 00:20:07.113 --> 00:20:08.030 align:middle line:90% through the back door. 00:20:08.030 --> 00:20:10.640 align:middle line:84% I don't have a degree, like self-taught, learn 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:12.350 align:middle line:90% all this stuff on YouTube. 00:20:12.350 --> 00:20:20.060 align:middle line:84% And so I'm coming at it from making community posters, 00:20:20.060 --> 00:20:22.400 align:middle line:90% making album covers for bands. 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:25.290 align:middle line:84% It's a lot of cover work and things like that. 00:20:25.290 --> 00:20:29.310 align:middle line:84% And so it's a double edged sword for me. 00:20:29.310 --> 00:20:34.630 align:middle line:84% On some ends, it really makes my work look unique, 00:20:34.630 --> 00:20:37.290 align:middle line:84% I feel like, the process that I go about in approaching it 00:20:37.290 --> 00:20:39.930 align:middle line:84% and the way that I see it and visualize it. 00:20:39.930 --> 00:20:42.750 align:middle line:84% But then for me, it does also get in the way sometimes. 00:20:42.750 --> 00:20:46.170 align:middle line:84% It gets in the way of the process and being what I think 00:20:46.170 --> 00:20:48.240 align:middle line:84% would be like considered efficient. 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:50.520 align:middle line:84% Like an efficient way of producing work 00:20:50.520 --> 00:20:54.390 align:middle line:84% and an efficient way of finishing a project, basically. 00:20:54.390 --> 00:20:56.830 align:middle line:84% So do you have-- do you feel like it ever-- no? 00:20:56.830 --> 00:20:59.940 align:middle line:90% No, no. 00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:04.410 align:middle line:84% And I think that you and I, because we're similar, 00:21:04.410 --> 00:21:06.570 align:middle line:84% that I didn't study creative writing. 00:21:06.570 --> 00:21:10.920 align:middle line:90% My degree is in composition. 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:16.350 align:middle line:84% And I don't have an MFA, I've taken like two creative writing 00:21:16.350 --> 00:21:20.100 align:middle line:90% classes, and that's like it. 00:21:20.100 --> 00:21:24.900 align:middle line:84% Besides doing a workshop with friends and stuff. 00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:28.758 align:middle line:90% And I think that it's actually-- 00:21:28.758 --> 00:21:30.300 align:middle line:84% those kinds of things are beneficial, 00:21:30.300 --> 00:21:34.050 align:middle line:84% like coming in through the back door, because I think we're not 00:21:34.050 --> 00:21:38.250 align:middle line:84% weighed down by this is how it has to look to be professional. 00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:40.590 align:middle line:84% This is what a comic looks like, right, 00:21:40.590 --> 00:21:42.300 align:middle line:84% or this is what a novel looks like. 00:21:42.300 --> 00:21:46.230 align:middle line:84% And if it doesn't have A, B, and C, then it's not a real novel, 00:21:46.230 --> 00:21:50.160 align:middle line:84% it's not a real piece of work, or not a real comic. 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.940 align:middle line:84% And so I really think that poetry-- 00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:56.770 align:middle line:84% I think it is poetry because there's so much freedom in it. 00:21:56.770 --> 00:22:00.060 align:middle line:84% It allows me to see prose and to see fiction in that way, 00:22:00.060 --> 00:22:02.870 align:middle line:84% like how many ways can I tell this story? 00:22:02.870 --> 00:22:05.370 align:middle line:84% So like when you're putting a poem together, 00:22:05.370 --> 00:22:09.690 align:middle line:84% oh, this needs to be a haiku or it needs to be a villanelle 00:22:09.690 --> 00:22:11.460 align:middle line:90% or it needs to be free verse. 00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:13.080 align:middle line:90% Like I just change it. 00:22:13.080 --> 00:22:17.370 align:middle line:84% And I feel that way with writing fiction, 00:22:17.370 --> 00:22:20.790 align:middle line:84% like, oh, this story should be a children's book 00:22:20.790 --> 00:22:22.440 align:middle line:90% and it should be this short. 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.080 align:middle line:84% Or this should be a middle grade novel, 00:22:25.080 --> 00:22:27.120 align:middle line:90% and it should be this, right. 00:22:27.120 --> 00:22:28.050 align:middle line:90% And it's so-- 00:22:28.050 --> 00:22:30.360 align:middle line:84% Those norms, those trends of what 00:22:30.360 --> 00:22:34.800 align:middle line:84% publishing is telling us a book is or has to look like, right? 00:22:34.800 --> 00:22:37.980 align:middle line:90% Yeah, yeah. 00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:44.380 align:middle line:84% Yeah, no, I think that going along with the trend thing, 00:22:44.380 --> 00:22:44.880 align:middle line:90% right. 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.300 align:middle line:84% Like I think trends are dangerous. 00:22:48.300 --> 00:22:51.180 align:middle line:84% Trends are dangerous because they change so quickly. 00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:54.270 align:middle line:84% And asking, what are people reading 00:22:54.270 --> 00:22:57.900 align:middle line:84% right now that's going to sell and what's marketable. 00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:00.600 align:middle line:84% Those are things that I think neither 00:23:00.600 --> 00:23:02.640 align:middle line:90% you or I ask each other. 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:05.730 align:middle line:90% 00:23:05.730 --> 00:23:06.850 align:middle line:90% We just create work. 00:23:06.850 --> 00:23:08.520 align:middle line:84% At least I feel that you do, right? 00:23:08.520 --> 00:23:10.323 align:middle line:84% Like you just you're going to create 00:23:10.323 --> 00:23:11.490 align:middle line:90% what you're going to create. 00:23:11.490 --> 00:23:15.260 align:middle line:84% And thankfully, it's been all right. 00:23:15.260 --> 00:23:18.150 align:middle line:90% 00:23:18.150 --> 00:23:20.670 align:middle line:84% Yeah, and I mean for me, my ignorance in that 00:23:20.670 --> 00:23:26.160 align:middle line:90% is a blessing in some ways. 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.400 align:middle line:84% I didn't even know what a anything was, 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:30.720 align:middle line:90% like the middle grade stuff. 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.720 align:middle line:84% And I had primarily been practicing in the studio, 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:36.540 align:middle line:84% like painting stuff, community projects. 00:23:36.540 --> 00:23:38.940 align:middle line:84% And then the book project came along with you. 00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:41.760 align:middle line:90% 00:23:41.760 --> 00:23:45.413 align:middle line:84% And what year is Gabi again, remind me? 00:23:45.413 --> 00:23:45.913 align:middle line:90% 2013? 00:23:45.913 --> 00:23:47.020 align:middle line:90% 2014. 00:23:47.020 --> 00:23:48.840 align:middle line:90% Yeah, 14. 00:23:48.840 --> 00:23:51.690 align:middle line:84% So then three years later, Photographic comes along 00:23:51.690 --> 00:23:55.110 align:middle line:84% and I just say yes, never having made a full length 00:23:55.110 --> 00:23:57.750 align:middle line:84% graphic novel, like either of us. 00:23:57.750 --> 00:24:01.740 align:middle line:84% And going into that and not knowing just 00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:04.300 align:middle line:84% made me rely on the thing that I did know how to do, 00:24:04.300 --> 00:24:08.790 align:middle line:84% which was static images, more of the studio work. 00:24:08.790 --> 00:24:13.020 align:middle line:84% And then my readers knowledge of what a graphic novel looks 00:24:13.020 --> 00:24:17.940 align:middle line:84% like, and from studying it just from being a participant 00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:21.420 align:middle line:90% in the culture for so long. 00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:26.470 align:middle line:84% And so I think just focusing on the work 00:24:26.470 --> 00:24:29.170 align:middle line:84% and just focusing on the story and having the story center us 00:24:29.170 --> 00:24:32.350 align:middle line:84% I think is what makes that book look really unique 00:24:32.350 --> 00:24:34.540 align:middle line:90% and read really unique. 00:24:34.540 --> 00:24:36.760 align:middle line:84% It doesn't fall into any one of those things, 00:24:36.760 --> 00:24:38.920 align:middle line:84% it's kind of hard to categorize at some point. 00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:42.040 align:middle line:84% Yeah, because neither of us were trying to-- 00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:44.560 align:middle line:84% we were just like, this is what our graphic novel 00:24:44.560 --> 00:24:46.930 align:middle line:90% is going to look like. 00:24:46.930 --> 00:24:49.570 align:middle line:90% So this is what you get. 00:24:49.570 --> 00:24:51.880 align:middle line:90% For sure. 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:53.830 align:middle line:84% So I don't know if this is along the lines, 00:24:53.830 --> 00:24:56.500 align:middle line:84% but I did want to talk about this. 00:24:56.500 --> 00:24:59.680 align:middle line:90% 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:02.050 align:middle line:84% One of the reasons I enjoy collaborating 00:25:02.050 --> 00:25:04.780 align:middle line:84% with you is because I respect you 00:25:04.780 --> 00:25:08.230 align:middle line:84% and your work and that intent you 00:25:08.230 --> 00:25:13.870 align:middle line:84% have of your work and your values, right? 00:25:13.870 --> 00:25:17.200 align:middle line:90% Like say no to projects. 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:18.130 align:middle line:90% Like that's huge. 00:25:18.130 --> 00:25:22.120 align:middle line:84% That's a huge thing that I constantly 00:25:22.120 --> 00:25:25.630 align:middle line:84% am learning from you about setting boundaries 00:25:25.630 --> 00:25:29.650 align:middle line:84% and what is our worth as an artist, as a writer, 00:25:29.650 --> 00:25:31.150 align:middle line:90% as a creative person. 00:25:31.150 --> 00:25:36.910 align:middle line:84% And you're very community minded and social justice minded. 00:25:36.910 --> 00:25:42.520 align:middle line:84% You do workshops with youth, and you're constantly doing flyers 00:25:42.520 --> 00:25:47.970 align:middle line:84% for community awareness or fundraisers 00:25:47.970 --> 00:25:50.830 align:middle line:84% and in [INAUDIBLE] and surrounding areas. 00:25:50.830 --> 00:25:57.590 align:middle line:84% So how does it affect the way that you view art? 00:25:57.590 --> 00:25:58.750 align:middle line:90% That you your work? 00:25:58.750 --> 00:26:02.350 align:middle line:90% Does it affect your practice? 00:26:02.350 --> 00:26:04.810 align:middle line:90% It's at the center of it. 00:26:04.810 --> 00:26:08.930 align:middle line:84% There's a quote by an author, I'm 00:26:08.930 --> 00:26:10.870 align:middle line:90% going to get all reference-y. 00:26:10.870 --> 00:26:12.190 align:middle line:90% I don't do this often. 00:26:12.190 --> 00:26:17.650 align:middle line:84% But Herbert marcuse He's actually a socialist art 00:26:17.650 --> 00:26:19.790 align:middle line:84% historian, he's like a Marxist and stuff. 00:26:19.790 --> 00:26:22.210 align:middle line:84% And he has this quote that I live by, 00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:25.660 align:middle line:90% which is, he uses the term art. 00:26:25.660 --> 00:26:27.580 align:middle line:84% I won't get into a discussion about art. 00:26:27.580 --> 00:26:31.685 align:middle line:84% I don't use art to refer to my work. 00:26:31.685 --> 00:26:33.310 align:middle line:84% But he uses this term art, and he says, 00:26:33.310 --> 00:26:37.780 align:middle line:84% art cannot change the world, but it can contribute to changing 00:26:37.780 --> 00:26:40.360 align:middle line:84% the consciousness of the people who can. 00:26:40.360 --> 00:26:45.820 align:middle line:84% So it's not that the work itself is doing something, 00:26:45.820 --> 00:26:51.160 align:middle line:84% it's allowing a pathway for connection or engagement. 00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:55.360 align:middle line:84% Or if it's a didactic project, it's 00:26:55.360 --> 00:26:58.450 align:middle line:84% something that's about educating and disseminating 00:26:58.450 --> 00:27:01.220 align:middle line:90% knowledge or information. 00:27:01.220 --> 00:27:03.100 align:middle line:84% And I think that that, again, going back 00:27:03.100 --> 00:27:06.310 align:middle line:84% to that idea of taking the thing off of the pedestal, the work 00:27:06.310 --> 00:27:08.530 align:middle line:84% that I make is not about the object. 00:27:08.530 --> 00:27:11.265 align:middle line:84% I'm not concerned with that, which 00:27:11.265 --> 00:27:13.390 align:middle line:84% is what's excellent about working digitally, right, 00:27:13.390 --> 00:27:15.610 align:middle line:84% is that it creates this confusing-- 00:27:15.610 --> 00:27:18.700 align:middle line:84% it creates this confusing thing for museums and galleries 00:27:18.700 --> 00:27:20.350 align:middle line:84% and collectors and the art industry 00:27:20.350 --> 00:27:23.327 align:middle line:84% because it's like, where is the thing that I can hold on to. 00:27:23.327 --> 00:27:25.660 align:middle line:84% Where is the thing that can be shipped from here to here 00:27:25.660 --> 00:27:26.890 align:middle line:90% and the thing. 00:27:26.890 --> 00:27:29.843 align:middle line:84% And I like that about it, because if story 00:27:29.843 --> 00:27:31.510 align:middle line:84% is at the heart of what I'm doing and is 00:27:31.510 --> 00:27:35.100 align:middle line:84% at the heart of my work, that's what's important. 00:27:35.100 --> 00:27:38.820 align:middle line:84% And when I was working on making these large scale paintings, 00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:41.790 align:middle line:84% these like four foot oil paintings on wood 00:27:41.790 --> 00:27:43.920 align:middle line:84% and they're like these really big things 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:48.600 align:middle line:84% and showing that work in the community, most of the time 00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:51.837 align:middle line:84% the reaction is going to be wow, it's painted so well. 00:27:51.837 --> 00:27:52.920 align:middle line:90% I love the way it painted. 00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:54.660 align:middle line:84% Or this one is the one that I always 00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:57.540 align:middle line:90% get is, it looks so realistic. 00:27:57.540 --> 00:28:02.100 align:middle line:84% And so it's this idea that the reaction that someone 00:28:02.100 --> 00:28:05.610 align:middle line:84% is having to the work is mostly about the technical part of it. 00:28:05.610 --> 00:28:09.952 align:middle line:84% It's mostly about the object and the technicality of painting. 00:28:09.952 --> 00:28:11.910 align:middle line:84% Which is why I moved away from it, which is why 00:28:11.910 --> 00:28:13.740 align:middle line:90% I stopped painting like that. 00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:19.500 align:middle line:84% Because if story is my intent and stories 00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:22.875 align:middle line:84% connection to preserving culture, to creating movement. 00:28:22.875 --> 00:28:25.860 align:middle line:90% 00:28:25.860 --> 00:28:28.980 align:middle line:84% For me personally, being a way for me 00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:33.270 align:middle line:84% to unpack the complexities of my identity 00:28:33.270 --> 00:28:35.110 align:middle line:84% in terms of race, class, sexuality, 00:28:35.110 --> 00:28:36.430 align:middle line:90% gender all the things. 00:28:36.430 --> 00:28:43.230 align:middle line:84% Is that comics' and illustration and the digital formats are 00:28:43.230 --> 00:28:46.380 align:middle line:84% a way to easily disseminate work, 00:28:46.380 --> 00:28:49.090 align:middle line:84% the book is an excellent way to disseminate work, the zine, 00:28:49.090 --> 00:28:49.590 align:middle line:90% right? 00:28:49.590 --> 00:28:52.800 align:middle line:84% Which we both practice and making zines. 00:28:52.800 --> 00:28:54.930 align:middle line:84% It's a great way to get that stuff out there 00:28:54.930 --> 00:28:56.730 align:middle line:84% that kind of removes that part of it 00:28:56.730 --> 00:28:59.250 align:middle line:90% where the focus is on the thing. 00:28:59.250 --> 00:29:01.320 align:middle line:84% And it's more about the story and the contents 00:29:01.320 --> 00:29:04.290 align:middle line:90% of what's going on in there. 00:29:04.290 --> 00:29:08.280 align:middle line:84% But, yeah, I mean the community stuff and the community work, 00:29:08.280 --> 00:29:14.160 align:middle line:84% I'm always trying to find that balance of maintaining 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:17.280 align:middle line:84% the commitments that I have to my community, the long time 00:29:17.280 --> 00:29:20.490 align:middle line:84% and lifelong commitments that I have to my community. 00:29:20.490 --> 00:29:23.700 align:middle line:84% While also needing to take on freelance projects 00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:27.030 align:middle line:84% and work on things to make a living, to support family 00:29:27.030 --> 00:29:29.370 align:middle line:90% and all that stuff. 00:29:29.370 --> 00:29:31.845 align:middle line:84% But I think that the community work is-- 00:29:31.845 --> 00:29:36.490 align:middle line:90% 00:29:36.490 --> 00:29:37.960 align:middle line:90% it informs the practice. 00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:40.090 align:middle line:84% Because if you look at the history. 00:29:40.090 --> 00:29:44.620 align:middle line:84% of our communities, that practice 00:29:44.620 --> 00:29:46.780 align:middle line:84% of being engaged with the community 00:29:46.780 --> 00:29:49.720 align:middle line:84% is something that has contributed 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:54.190 align:middle line:84% throughout the generations to providing more opportunities. 00:29:54.190 --> 00:29:56.560 align:middle line:84% If we talk about social justice, racial justice, all 00:29:56.560 --> 00:29:57.950 align:middle line:90% of these things. 00:29:57.950 --> 00:30:01.635 align:middle line:84% And so keeping that at the heart of all the things 00:30:01.635 --> 00:30:02.260 align:middle line:90% that I'm doing. 00:30:02.260 --> 00:30:04.218 align:middle line:84% Because even if it is a freelance project, like 00:30:04.218 --> 00:30:06.520 align:middle line:84% you mentioned saying no to projects. 00:30:06.520 --> 00:30:08.980 align:middle line:84% Saying no saying to projects and having 00:30:08.980 --> 00:30:11.380 align:middle line:84% those critical discussions with publishers and people 00:30:11.380 --> 00:30:14.230 align:middle line:84% who are engaging me to work on stuff 00:30:14.230 --> 00:30:16.120 align:middle line:90% is now part of the practice. 00:30:16.120 --> 00:30:23.380 align:middle line:84% It's now part of the way of practicing those values, 00:30:23.380 --> 00:30:25.540 align:middle line:90% as you mentioned. 00:30:25.540 --> 00:30:28.660 align:middle line:84% Am I the right person to be telling this story? 00:30:28.660 --> 00:30:31.388 align:middle line:84% Are you the right person to be publishing it? 00:30:31.388 --> 00:30:32.805 align:middle line:84% And having all of those questions. 00:30:32.805 --> 00:30:37.080 align:middle line:84% So I think it has definitely entered into my practice 00:30:37.080 --> 00:30:41.310 align:middle line:84% on a day to day basis and professional life with how 00:30:41.310 --> 00:30:44.310 align:middle line:84% I conduct myself and how I engage with people 00:30:44.310 --> 00:30:49.340 align:middle line:84% and being intentional about engaging with those people. 00:30:49.340 --> 00:30:54.960 align:middle line:84% Now that you're more further along in your career, 00:30:54.960 --> 00:31:00.860 align:middle line:90% it's become easier or-- 00:31:00.860 --> 00:31:03.140 align:middle line:90% to say no to projects? 00:31:03.140 --> 00:31:07.730 align:middle line:84% Because I think about this, because I do the same thing. 00:31:07.730 --> 00:31:13.400 align:middle line:84% I've been asked to tell stories that I have no business telling 00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:15.860 align:middle line:90% stories about. 00:31:15.860 --> 00:31:22.130 align:middle line:84% And I think that Isable, like before Gabi or when 00:31:22.130 --> 00:31:26.600 align:middle line:84% Gabi came out, had a harder time saying no because of the fear. 00:31:26.600 --> 00:31:31.700 align:middle line:84% Like I just started my career, I should be able to say no. 00:31:31.700 --> 00:31:35.600 align:middle line:84% But then I reflect on that, and that's such a cage 00:31:35.600 --> 00:31:37.430 align:middle line:90% we put ourselves in, also. 00:31:37.430 --> 00:31:40.750 align:middle line:90% Like we just become part of-- 00:31:40.750 --> 00:31:42.670 align:middle line:84% like we just continue to just be part 00:31:42.670 --> 00:31:45.722 align:middle line:84% of the cogs in this machine that we're constantly saying like, 00:31:45.722 --> 00:31:46.930 align:middle line:90% this machine needs to change. 00:31:46.930 --> 00:31:49.450 align:middle line:84% OK, well we're not changing, so this machine 00:31:49.450 --> 00:31:50.920 align:middle line:90% is never going to change. 00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:54.400 align:middle line:84% So do you feel it's become easier, 00:31:54.400 --> 00:32:00.540 align:middle line:84% or do you feel like that's just who you've always been? 00:32:00.540 --> 00:32:03.660 align:middle line:90% Of course it becomes easier. 00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:06.960 align:middle line:84% Having several opportunities to work on projects, 00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:08.910 align:middle line:90% it's a privilege. 00:32:08.910 --> 00:32:11.050 align:middle line:84% It's a privilege to say no to things. 00:32:11.050 --> 00:32:15.780 align:middle line:84% It's an economic privilege that I have at this point. 00:32:15.780 --> 00:32:21.780 align:middle line:84% But I'll say that because I worked in doing graphic design. 00:32:21.780 --> 00:32:23.940 align:middle line:84% In graphic design, it's harder to have-- 00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:26.803 align:middle line:84% it's harder to practice those kind of like-- 00:32:26.803 --> 00:32:28.470 align:middle line:84% it's harder to practice that when you're 00:32:28.470 --> 00:32:29.887 align:middle line:84% doing graphic design, because it's 00:32:29.887 --> 00:32:33.120 align:middle line:84% such a transactional thing, and you're really just having 00:32:33.120 --> 00:32:39.270 align:middle line:84% to make work for whoever's coming through the front door 00:32:39.270 --> 00:32:41.715 align:middle line:84% and saying, hey, I'd like to hire you for a project. 00:32:41.715 --> 00:32:44.310 align:middle line:90% 00:32:44.310 --> 00:32:47.400 align:middle line:84% But I think even in that, even in that practice 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:50.880 align:middle line:84% I've tried to do my best to keep that balance, right. 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.880 align:middle line:84% So even when I was taking projects that were just 00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:58.650 align:middle line:84% strictly business minded, like graphic design projects, 00:32:58.650 --> 00:33:03.120 align:middle line:84% to try to keep that balance to also give my time and my effort 00:33:03.120 --> 00:33:06.870 align:middle line:84% to working on community campaigns and things like that. 00:33:06.870 --> 00:33:08.460 align:middle line:90% It's always just had to be both. 00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:12.960 align:middle line:84% And to your point about being whatever, 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:16.530 align:middle line:84% a cog in the machine, that's the balance that we have to strike. 00:33:16.530 --> 00:33:22.630 align:middle line:84% How to, I guess, keep that in balance. 00:33:22.630 --> 00:33:23.430 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:33:23.430 --> 00:33:24.180 align:middle line:90% What about you? 00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:25.140 align:middle line:90% I mean, how have you-- 00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:28.560 align:middle line:90% 00:33:28.560 --> 00:33:32.610 align:middle line:84% after Gabi are you having different conversations 00:33:32.610 --> 00:33:35.160 align:middle line:84% with people who are engaging you? 00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:41.460 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I send more lengthy emails to people 00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:44.060 align:middle line:90% asking me to do projects. 00:33:44.060 --> 00:33:46.170 align:middle line:84% Asking them why they're asking me 00:33:46.170 --> 00:33:50.190 align:middle line:84% and not asking these other people that were-- 00:33:50.190 --> 00:33:58.560 align:middle line:84% are better equipped at telling the story than I would be. 00:33:58.560 --> 00:34:01.140 align:middle line:90% Or just saying no. 00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:04.050 align:middle line:90% Just plain, just saying no. 00:34:04.050 --> 00:34:07.140 align:middle line:90% Which I think is not-- 00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:10.980 align:middle line:90% 00:34:10.980 --> 00:34:14.100 align:middle line:84% saying no has it's been a difficult thing 00:34:14.100 --> 00:34:15.929 align:middle line:90% to learn for me. 00:34:15.929 --> 00:34:20.909 align:middle line:84% And I think that comes with being a woman, 00:34:20.909 --> 00:34:27.690 align:middle line:84% the way that I was raised as the Chicana Mexican in my family. 00:34:27.690 --> 00:34:32.969 align:middle line:84% And I'd get in trouble for saying no to things 00:34:32.969 --> 00:34:34.810 align:middle line:84% that I felt that I shouldn't be doing. 00:34:34.810 --> 00:34:36.270 align:middle line:84% So I'd get in trouble all the time. 00:34:36.270 --> 00:34:39.040 align:middle line:90% 00:34:39.040 --> 00:34:43.320 align:middle line:84% But I think now as I'm older-- like I'm almost 40. 00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:45.960 align:middle line:90% Just next year I turn 40. 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:51.389 align:middle line:84% So I should be practicing saying no more often. 00:34:51.389 --> 00:34:52.260 align:middle line:90% And yeah. 00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:55.560 align:middle line:90% So yeah, it's gotten easier. 00:34:55.560 --> 00:34:57.950 align:middle line:84% But I'm looking at the time right now-- 00:34:57.950 --> 00:35:01.260 align:middle line:90% We're coming up on our time. 00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:03.720 align:middle line:84% There's a question in the chat, do you want to? 00:35:03.720 --> 00:35:07.660 align:middle line:90% Yeah how do you publish a book? 00:35:07.660 --> 00:35:09.730 align:middle line:84% Yes, so we'll take this question, and then anyone 00:35:09.730 --> 00:35:11.290 align:middle line:84% in the audience, if you want to send 00:35:11.290 --> 00:35:13.120 align:middle line:84% your question through the chat, we'll take them there. 00:35:13.120 --> 00:35:15.430 align:middle line:84% Or if you'd love to speak up, I would personally 00:35:15.430 --> 00:35:17.170 align:middle line:84% love to hear your voice, if you're 00:35:17.170 --> 00:35:18.910 align:middle line:84% willing to offer your question there. 00:35:18.910 --> 00:35:21.410 align:middle line:84% But while you think of a question, 00:35:21.410 --> 00:35:22.830 align:middle line:84% we'll answer this one in the chat, 00:35:22.830 --> 00:35:24.038 align:middle line:90% if you want to take that one. 00:35:24.038 --> 00:35:25.810 align:middle line:84% Yeah, how did you publish your first book 00:35:25.810 --> 00:35:27.340 align:middle line:90% and was it hard to publish it? 00:35:27.340 --> 00:35:31.762 align:middle line:90% 00:35:31.762 --> 00:35:34.300 align:middle line:84% If you're a writer out there, one of the things 00:35:34.300 --> 00:35:37.690 align:middle line:84% I will tell you, and you probably already know this, 00:35:37.690 --> 00:35:39.910 align:middle line:90% rejection is part of-- 00:35:39.910 --> 00:35:43.700 align:middle line:84% I think any creative person, whether you're a musician, 00:35:43.700 --> 00:35:46.060 align:middle line:90% a visual artist, comic artist. 00:35:46.060 --> 00:35:47.890 align:middle line:84% Although, I hear that cartoonists, 00:35:47.890 --> 00:35:49.690 align:middle line:84% you guys have it pretty easy, right? 00:35:49.690 --> 00:35:53.150 align:middle line:90% 00:35:53.150 --> 00:35:53.650 align:middle line:90% Oh, yeah. 00:35:53.650 --> 00:35:56.410 align:middle line:90% It's a breeze. 00:35:56.410 --> 00:36:00.910 align:middle line:84% But rejection, it's just part of the job. 00:36:00.910 --> 00:36:03.160 align:middle line:84% Like in Spanish, we have a saying. 00:36:03.160 --> 00:36:08.770 align:middle line:84% [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] I'm not a little gold coin 00:36:08.770 --> 00:36:12.790 align:middle line:90% that everyone is going to love. 00:36:12.790 --> 00:36:19.690 align:middle line:84% So publishing my first book, I started writing Gabi in 2007 00:36:19.690 --> 00:36:22.660 align:middle line:84% and it was published-- it was bought in 2013. 00:36:22.660 --> 00:36:26.860 align:middle line:84% So there in itself was five years of finishing the project 00:36:26.860 --> 00:36:31.030 align:middle line:84% and then rewriting the whole book from novel 00:36:31.030 --> 00:36:32.920 align:middle line:90% into verse and now prose. 00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:37.120 align:middle line:84% And then trying to look for an agent, and getting rejected. 00:36:37.120 --> 00:36:39.670 align:middle line:84% Sending query letters out to agents. 00:36:39.670 --> 00:36:41.770 align:middle line:84% And then I was like, well, I guess an agent 00:36:41.770 --> 00:36:42.850 align:middle line:90% isn't going to want it. 00:36:42.850 --> 00:36:46.850 align:middle line:84% Then I'm going to try to send it to small publishers. 00:36:46.850 --> 00:36:48.760 align:middle line:84% And that's how I found Cinco Puntos 00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:53.260 align:middle line:84% I was an elementary school librarian and I was buying, 00:36:53.260 --> 00:36:59.020 align:middle line:84% expanding the collection to have more books about Latinx folks 00:36:59.020 --> 00:37:00.190 align:middle line:90% on the shelves. 00:37:00.190 --> 00:37:03.130 align:middle line:84% And that's how I found Cinco Puntos, 00:37:03.130 --> 00:37:09.220 align:middle line:84% because I liked the work they did and I sent it to them. 00:37:09.220 --> 00:37:11.530 align:middle line:90% And thankfully, they liked it. 00:37:11.530 --> 00:37:15.130 align:middle line:84% Fortunately they enjoyed it, really liked the book. 00:37:15.130 --> 00:37:17.800 align:middle line:84% I had already sent them other projects. 00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:19.810 align:middle line:84% And I was just looking through my email, 00:37:19.810 --> 00:37:24.550 align:middle line:84% recently, at the first thing I sent to Cinco Puntos, 00:37:24.550 --> 00:37:26.440 align:middle line:84% and I was like, oh, my gosh, I forgot 00:37:26.440 --> 00:37:31.630 align:middle line:84% I had even sent them this project and they rejected it. 00:37:31.630 --> 00:37:40.360 align:middle line:84% And so that's how that came to be. 00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:42.790 align:middle line:84% I sold it on my own to Cinco Puntos. 00:37:42.790 --> 00:37:44.560 align:middle line:90% That doesn't happen often. 00:37:44.560 --> 00:37:48.310 align:middle line:84% It usually is a small press if that's what you're going for. 00:37:48.310 --> 00:37:50.170 align:middle line:90% And it was hard. 00:37:50.170 --> 00:37:55.600 align:middle line:84% It was hard because publishing can be is the ruthless. 00:37:55.600 --> 00:37:59.290 align:middle line:84% You know, after Gabi started getting 00:37:59.290 --> 00:38:02.740 align:middle line:84% awards and recognitions, it was being put on lists. 00:38:02.740 --> 00:38:04.690 align:middle line:84% Some of those agents that rejected 00:38:04.690 --> 00:38:08.680 align:middle line:84% me actually emailed me and were like, oh, we're 00:38:08.680 --> 00:38:10.360 align:middle line:90% interested in your work. 00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:12.940 align:middle line:84% Like, you weren't interested before. 00:38:12.940 --> 00:38:17.320 align:middle line:90% I don't know what changed. 00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:17.890 align:middle line:90% So, yeah. 00:38:17.890 --> 00:38:21.490 align:middle line:84% It gets a little tough sometimes. 00:38:21.490 --> 00:38:29.680 align:middle line:84% But I do recommend, if you want to publish, it's a lot of work. 00:38:29.680 --> 00:38:33.340 align:middle line:84% But if that is your goal, keep at it. 00:38:33.340 --> 00:38:36.190 align:middle line:90% Keep at it. 00:38:36.190 --> 00:38:39.670 align:middle line:84% And sometimes it's a crapshoot, I'm not going to lie. 00:38:39.670 --> 00:38:45.460 align:middle line:84% Sometimes it's-- you've got to put in the work. 00:38:45.460 --> 00:38:47.080 align:middle line:84% I've talked to people who are like, 00:38:47.080 --> 00:38:48.740 align:middle line:90% I was rejected three times. 00:38:48.740 --> 00:38:50.680 align:middle line:84% I don't think I'm going to be a writer. 00:38:50.680 --> 00:38:52.392 align:middle line:90% Nope, you're not. 00:38:52.392 --> 00:38:54.850 align:middle line:84% You're not going to be a writer if three times you're like, 00:38:54.850 --> 00:38:56.140 align:middle line:90% I'm done. 00:38:56.140 --> 00:38:59.300 align:middle line:90% So just keep at it. 00:38:59.300 --> 00:39:00.010 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:39:00.010 --> 00:39:02.770 align:middle line:84% Thank you, and thank you both for your stories. 00:39:02.770 --> 00:39:04.270 align:middle line:90% They're really interesting. 00:39:04.270 --> 00:39:09.620 align:middle line:84% You both seem like you've found like a collaborative groove. 00:39:09.620 --> 00:39:13.840 align:middle line:84% And I'm really interested in artists who collaborate. 00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:17.890 align:middle line:84% And so one of my questions for you 00:39:17.890 --> 00:39:20.950 align:middle line:84% is, where do you feel like you have the most 00:39:20.950 --> 00:39:23.770 align:middle line:84% synergy in your work, and where do you 00:39:23.770 --> 00:39:27.760 align:middle line:84% feel like you have the most points of divergence when 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:31.075 align:middle line:84% you're trying to create a product together? 00:39:31.075 --> 00:39:33.680 align:middle line:90% 00:39:33.680 --> 00:39:34.870 align:middle line:90% Thanks for the question. 00:39:34.870 --> 00:39:39.070 align:middle line:84% You can-- something come to mind for you? 00:39:39.070 --> 00:39:41.940 align:middle line:90% You know, I think-- 00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:43.500 align:middle line:84% I have to think on that a little bit. 00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:46.270 align:middle line:90% I think that's the thing. 00:39:46.270 --> 00:39:50.970 align:middle line:84% I mean, in terms of synergy and like where we connect, I mean, 00:39:50.970 --> 00:39:52.710 align:middle line:84% we connect through our friendship. 00:39:52.710 --> 00:39:55.860 align:middle line:90% I don't know, it was weird. 00:39:55.860 --> 00:39:58.140 align:middle line:84% And I think this is something that's important for me 00:39:58.140 --> 00:40:00.540 align:middle line:84% when I'm working with anyone, whether it's a short term 00:40:00.540 --> 00:40:04.980 align:middle line:84% collaboration or a long project kind of collaboration 00:40:04.980 --> 00:40:07.500 align:middle line:84% or a community thing, or even just someone engaging 00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:11.460 align:middle line:84% to work on a project or wanting to showcase work 00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:13.970 align:middle line:84% like a museum or a gallery or something. 00:40:13.970 --> 00:40:15.720 align:middle line:84% I don't know, I just want to talk to them. 00:40:15.720 --> 00:40:18.540 align:middle line:90% 00:40:18.540 --> 00:40:21.240 align:middle line:84% There's so much emailing going on and stuff, 00:40:21.240 --> 00:40:22.890 align:middle line:84% and there's something nice about just 00:40:22.890 --> 00:40:24.630 align:middle line:84% being able to share space with someone, 00:40:24.630 --> 00:40:28.270 align:middle line:84% to hear someone's voice, to kind of have conversation. 00:40:28.270 --> 00:40:31.080 align:middle line:90% And I think that we were-- 00:40:31.080 --> 00:40:33.930 align:middle line:84% I was trying to be really intentional about creating 00:40:33.930 --> 00:40:38.160 align:middle line:84% that kind of relationship because the first project 00:40:38.160 --> 00:40:40.800 align:middle line:84% that we work on, Gabi: A Girl in Pieces. 00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:44.160 align:middle line:84% I was only doing the book cover, I drew some interior zines, 00:40:44.160 --> 00:40:45.030 align:middle line:90% too. 00:40:45.030 --> 00:40:47.310 align:middle line:84% But I could tell right off the bat 00:40:47.310 --> 00:40:49.530 align:middle line:84% that this was a really important story to Isabel. 00:40:49.530 --> 00:40:52.350 align:middle line:84% And so I wanted to treat it the right way 00:40:52.350 --> 00:40:54.100 align:middle line:90% and treat it with respect. 00:40:54.100 --> 00:40:56.730 align:middle line:84% And so I think where we really sync up 00:40:56.730 --> 00:41:00.600 align:middle line:84% is in that conversation and brainstorming part of it. 00:41:00.600 --> 00:41:03.360 align:middle line:84% It's really much about like, hey, OK, 00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:06.360 align:middle line:84% this is kind of the idea that I have, 00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:07.560 align:middle line:90% what do you think about it? 00:41:07.560 --> 00:41:09.720 align:middle line:84% And in some ways that's about vulnerability. 00:41:09.720 --> 00:41:11.950 align:middle line:84% It's just like a normal relationship thing. 00:41:11.950 --> 00:41:15.930 align:middle line:84% It's about being vulnerable and saying 00:41:15.930 --> 00:41:18.557 align:middle line:84% here's this really, really poorly drawn idea that I have, 00:41:18.557 --> 00:41:19.890 align:middle line:90% like what do you think about it? 00:41:19.890 --> 00:41:23.160 align:middle line:84% And trusting Isabel to say, yeah, that's cool, 00:41:23.160 --> 00:41:26.340 align:middle line:84% that works, or no, I don't think that that's a good idea. 00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:28.330 align:middle line:90% Maybe think about doing this. 00:41:28.330 --> 00:41:30.120 align:middle line:84% So I don't know how you feel about that. 00:41:30.120 --> 00:41:35.610 align:middle line:84% I actually was going to say, I think the fact that we have-- 00:41:35.610 --> 00:41:37.800 align:middle line:84% like in any relationship, communication 00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:39.040 align:middle line:90% is really important. 00:41:39.040 --> 00:41:47.510 align:middle line:84% And so I think that I feel free to talk with Zeke about ideas 00:41:47.510 --> 00:41:51.980 align:middle line:84% that I have for projects and to receive his feedback 00:41:51.980 --> 00:41:53.060 align:middle line:90% and criticism. 00:41:53.060 --> 00:41:57.050 align:middle line:84% Because I know it's not going to be-- 00:41:57.050 --> 00:41:59.780 align:middle line:84% he's not going to be a jerk about it. 00:41:59.780 --> 00:42:03.020 align:middle line:90% It'll be a good conversation. 00:42:03.020 --> 00:42:06.080 align:middle line:84% And the fact that we often get into conversations 00:42:06.080 --> 00:42:09.770 align:middle line:84% about projects and we're on the same page 00:42:09.770 --> 00:42:13.880 align:middle line:84% about, I'm not feeling this, it's giving me a hard time. 00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:15.870 align:middle line:84% Or what do you think about doing this? 00:42:15.870 --> 00:42:18.800 align:middle line:84% And like, oh, yeah, that's exciting. 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:22.220 align:middle line:84% The fact that we can be really honest with each 00:42:22.220 --> 00:42:28.970 align:middle line:84% other about things, about work things. 00:42:28.970 --> 00:42:31.940 align:middle line:84% And also people things, like I learned something about myself 00:42:31.940 --> 00:42:34.160 align:middle line:90% from Zeke. 00:42:34.160 --> 00:42:36.740 align:middle line:90% But it's easy. 00:42:36.740 --> 00:42:39.990 align:middle line:84% Because sometimes you do work with people and you're like, 00:42:39.990 --> 00:42:42.560 align:middle line:84% I don't think I ever want to work with this person again. 00:42:42.560 --> 00:42:46.920 align:middle line:84% They're not good at taking criticism or giving criticism. 00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:47.922 align:middle line:90% They're not good at-- 00:42:47.922 --> 00:42:49.880 align:middle line:84% they're too scared to tell you what they really 00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:51.050 align:middle line:90% feel about your work. 00:42:51.050 --> 00:42:55.940 align:middle line:84% And so you need honesty and that vulnerability 00:42:55.940 --> 00:42:58.010 align:middle line:84% when you're working with someone in order 00:42:58.010 --> 00:43:02.900 align:middle line:84% to get in to the group-- in order for the work to be good. 00:43:02.900 --> 00:43:05.630 align:middle line:84% To be something that you could both be proud of. 00:43:05.630 --> 00:43:09.830 align:middle line:84% Because I'm proud of the work that we've done together. 00:43:09.830 --> 00:43:13.280 align:middle line:84% I'm not like, oh, that book that I did with that person. 00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.830 align:middle line:90% Like I'm excited about it. 00:43:15.830 --> 00:43:18.470 align:middle line:84% So it's not just professional, it goes deeper. 00:43:18.470 --> 00:43:19.710 align:middle line:90% And yeah, absolutely. 00:43:19.710 --> 00:43:23.418 align:middle line:84% And I think it's a personal relationship and I want to-- 00:43:23.418 --> 00:43:25.460 align:middle line:84% because I think that that's also something that's 00:43:25.460 --> 00:43:26.930 align:middle line:84% missing from a lot of industries, 00:43:26.930 --> 00:43:29.840 align:middle line:84% is that personal part of like, hey, how are you doing? 00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:32.180 align:middle line:90% Like that sense of care. 00:43:32.180 --> 00:43:34.730 align:middle line:84% Like I care about Isabel as a person. 00:43:34.730 --> 00:43:38.450 align:middle line:84% And that should be first and foremost, like, are you 00:43:38.450 --> 00:43:40.910 align:middle line:90% OK, how are you doing? 00:43:40.910 --> 00:43:43.500 align:middle line:84% OK, I'm good, I'm OK, let's get into it. 00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:46.520 align:middle line:84% And I feel like that just sets a really nice pace 00:43:46.520 --> 00:43:49.610 align:middle line:84% for being able to then go on to have 00:43:49.610 --> 00:43:54.450 align:middle line:84% those vulnerabilities, the conversation, the questioning. 00:43:54.450 --> 00:43:57.320 align:middle line:84% And my critique always comes in questioning. 00:43:57.320 --> 00:44:00.560 align:middle line:84% It's never in like, I think this is good or bad. 00:44:00.560 --> 00:44:05.902 align:middle line:84% What does this mean, or have you thought about this? 00:44:05.902 --> 00:44:07.610 align:middle line:84% Like what does this mean for this person? 00:44:07.610 --> 00:44:10.120 align:middle line:90% So I just wanted to add that. 00:44:10.120 --> 00:44:14.080 align:middle line:84% I love that you have both talked about the relationship 00:44:14.080 --> 00:44:17.170 align:middle line:84% that you two have together, and also working 00:44:17.170 --> 00:44:19.630 align:middle line:84% on Graciela's book, for example, like the trust. 00:44:19.630 --> 00:44:23.710 align:middle line:84% That is really inherent in a successful relationship. 00:44:23.710 --> 00:44:25.900 align:middle line:90% A successful project. 00:44:25.900 --> 00:44:26.600 align:middle line:90% I love that. 00:44:26.600 --> 00:44:28.100 align:middle line:84% And I also love that you both talked 00:44:28.100 --> 00:44:30.850 align:middle line:84% about sort of coming in through the back door 00:44:30.850 --> 00:44:32.102 align:middle line:90% and not really knowing-- 00:44:32.102 --> 00:44:33.560 align:middle line:84% like you didn't know the rule book. 00:44:33.560 --> 00:44:37.720 align:middle line:84% So it gave you some freedom to experiment, both as a team 00:44:37.720 --> 00:44:38.960 align:middle line:90% and independently. 00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:42.190 align:middle line:84% And so I think those are parts of conversations 00:44:42.190 --> 00:44:45.700 align:middle line:84% about creativity that are often sort of lost. 00:44:45.700 --> 00:44:47.290 align:middle line:90% So I just-- I love that. 00:44:47.290 --> 00:44:47.930 align:middle line:90% I love that. 00:44:47.930 --> 00:44:49.360 align:middle line:90% Thank you so much. 00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:51.688 align:middle line:84% And then Zeke, since you mentioned care, 00:44:51.688 --> 00:44:53.980 align:middle line:84% and I think that's also something that's often left out 00:44:53.980 --> 00:44:56.920 align:middle line:84% of these conversations, both from an industry 00:44:56.920 --> 00:45:03.404 align:middle line:84% perspective or the relationships that make any industry thrive. 00:45:03.404 --> 00:45:05.080 align:middle line:90% That's often lost. 00:45:05.080 --> 00:45:11.770 align:middle line:84% So in the sort of theme of care, and we've all just-- 00:45:11.770 --> 00:45:15.940 align:middle line:84% we're all still living through a really rough year 00:45:15.940 --> 00:45:21.100 align:middle line:84% due to the pandemic, racial unrest and upheaval, 00:45:21.100 --> 00:45:23.950 align:middle line:84% and the sort of long term effects of the public health 00:45:23.950 --> 00:45:25.930 align:middle line:90% crisis that we don't even know. 00:45:25.930 --> 00:45:28.330 align:middle line:84% I don't think any of us really know 00:45:28.330 --> 00:45:30.920 align:middle line:90% what that's going to look like. 00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:32.947 align:middle line:84% So I would just ask both of you, like how-- 00:45:32.947 --> 00:45:34.780 align:middle line:84% and Isabel, I also know you're a new mother. 00:45:34.780 --> 00:45:38.830 align:middle line:84% So how has all of this affected your practices 00:45:38.830 --> 00:45:42.870 align:middle line:84% and your focus and sort of what's important to you? 00:45:42.870 --> 00:45:47.370 align:middle line:90% 00:45:47.370 --> 00:45:49.890 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I mean, you took-- this was 00:45:49.890 --> 00:45:53.370 align:middle line:84% like my third question for Zeke in my list of questions 00:45:53.370 --> 00:45:54.240 align:middle line:90% I had for him. 00:45:54.240 --> 00:45:58.590 align:middle line:84% Like how has this year affected you? 00:45:58.590 --> 00:46:04.770 align:middle line:84% For me, definitely being a mom has re-shifted some priorities. 00:46:04.770 --> 00:46:10.050 align:middle line:84% I think that's also made me grow into saying no to more things. 00:46:10.050 --> 00:46:11.970 align:middle line:90% Because now I have a child. 00:46:11.970 --> 00:46:15.510 align:middle line:84% And as before, I worked all the time 00:46:15.510 --> 00:46:17.567 align:middle line:84% when we were working on Photographic. 00:46:17.567 --> 00:46:19.650 align:middle line:84% Sometimes it was like 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning, 00:46:19.650 --> 00:46:24.900 align:middle line:84% and Zeke and I were on the phone working on this project. 00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:28.650 align:middle line:84% I can't imagine doing that right now, having a child. 00:46:28.650 --> 00:46:32.430 align:middle line:90% Like that's shifted drastically. 00:46:32.430 --> 00:46:38.210 align:middle line:84% Also, it's put into perspective what 00:46:38.210 --> 00:46:43.370 align:middle line:84% do I want, what do I want my writing career to look like? 00:46:43.370 --> 00:46:44.330 align:middle line:90% Who am I as a writer. 00:46:44.330 --> 00:46:47.240 align:middle line:84% It's making me question all of those things. 00:46:47.240 --> 00:46:54.770 align:middle line:84% And trying to focus on the writing has been hard. 00:46:54.770 --> 00:46:56.870 align:middle line:84% You know, I sold a bunch of books 00:46:56.870 --> 00:46:58.490 align:middle line:90% and now I have to finish them. 00:46:58.490 --> 00:47:01.280 align:middle line:84% Thankfully, I've written a big chunk. 00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:05.600 align:middle line:90% But it's hard, emotionally. 00:47:05.600 --> 00:47:08.060 align:middle line:84% I'm someone who suffers from anxiety 00:47:08.060 --> 00:47:09.830 align:middle line:90% and bouts of depression. 00:47:09.830 --> 00:47:13.520 align:middle line:84% And then having a child during this time 00:47:13.520 --> 00:47:15.200 align:middle line:84% and not being able to have any child 00:47:15.200 --> 00:47:18.710 align:middle line:90% care where my partner is also-- 00:47:18.710 --> 00:47:20.400 align:middle line:90% he's also a creative person. 00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:21.290 align:middle line:90% He's a cartoonist. 00:47:21.290 --> 00:47:23.720 align:middle line:84% And so he's having to work on the projects, 00:47:23.720 --> 00:47:25.370 align:middle line:84% I'm having to work on my projects. 00:47:25.370 --> 00:47:27.680 align:middle line:84% There was no one to help us with the kid. 00:47:27.680 --> 00:47:31.460 align:middle line:84% And so that's a lot to put into perspective. 00:47:31.460 --> 00:47:34.100 align:middle line:84% Well, where does my work fit in, and how do I 00:47:34.100 --> 00:47:36.500 align:middle line:90% want my work to fit into this? 00:47:36.500 --> 00:47:40.700 align:middle line:84% And realizing that sometimes, I'm 00:47:40.700 --> 00:47:42.710 align:middle line:84% just not going to write that day. 00:47:42.710 --> 00:47:44.930 align:middle line:84% Like it's just not going to happen. 00:47:44.930 --> 00:47:48.650 align:middle line:84% As much as I want it to happen, and that it's OK. 00:47:48.650 --> 00:47:53.780 align:middle line:84% Things are just going to keep on happening. 00:47:53.780 --> 00:47:58.310 align:middle line:84% I'm going to live the next day, and I will write the next day. 00:47:58.310 --> 00:48:01.760 align:middle line:84% And I've had to really slow down, 00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:07.910 align:middle line:84% really just be more accepting of things and having long 00:48:07.910 --> 00:48:13.130 align:middle line:84% conversations with my therapist about slowing down and just 00:48:13.130 --> 00:48:17.250 align:middle line:84% accepting that I cannot control everything. 00:48:17.250 --> 00:48:21.440 align:middle line:84% I think that's been the biggest thing this last year. 00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:24.680 align:middle line:84% Because I haven't even been able to hug my mom in over a year, 00:48:24.680 --> 00:48:26.350 align:middle line:90% like a lot of people. 00:48:26.350 --> 00:48:27.140 align:middle line:90% My parents. 00:48:27.140 --> 00:48:29.033 align:middle line:90% And it's been hard. 00:48:29.033 --> 00:48:29.950 align:middle line:90% It's been really hard. 00:48:29.950 --> 00:48:32.510 align:middle line:90% 00:48:32.510 --> 00:48:35.100 align:middle line:90% Yeah, equally, it's been tough. 00:48:35.100 --> 00:48:41.190 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think creatively, as it relates specifically 00:48:41.190 --> 00:48:47.670 align:middle line:84% to creativity, it's been a very slow moments. 00:48:47.670 --> 00:48:50.940 align:middle line:84% I had all these plans of finishing books. 00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:53.820 align:middle line:84% I'm writing a couple of projects. 00:48:53.820 --> 00:48:59.220 align:middle line:84% And I think, equally, to the issue of care and creativity 00:48:59.220 --> 00:49:03.972 align:middle line:84% is care and collaboration starts with self-care. 00:49:03.972 --> 00:49:06.180 align:middle line:84% Like, if I'm not taking care of myself I don't have-- 00:49:06.180 --> 00:49:08.435 align:middle line:84% I'm not in the position or I don't have the capacity 00:49:08.435 --> 00:49:10.560 align:middle line:84% to care for the other person that I'm collaborating 00:49:10.560 --> 00:49:12.510 align:middle line:90% with or in a relationship with. 00:49:12.510 --> 00:49:18.930 align:middle line:84% And then I think, equally, care for a project 00:49:18.930 --> 00:49:21.848 align:middle line:84% that I'm working on is not going to happen unless I'm 00:49:21.848 --> 00:49:23.140 align:middle line:90% in a good place to approach it. 00:49:23.140 --> 00:49:27.690 align:middle line:84% So I think that it's also been a slowing down for me. 00:49:27.690 --> 00:49:30.630 align:middle line:84% Trying to be present in the moment. 00:49:30.630 --> 00:49:33.330 align:middle line:84% But also, the bill's got to get paid. 00:49:33.330 --> 00:49:36.570 align:middle line:84% So it's also a mixture of just kind 00:49:36.570 --> 00:49:41.310 align:middle line:84% of going through and getting things done 00:49:41.310 --> 00:49:44.250 align:middle line:90% when they need to get done. 00:49:44.250 --> 00:49:48.570 align:middle line:84% So it's just been a balance of those two things. 00:49:48.570 --> 00:49:51.720 align:middle line:84% But it has definitely made me re-prioritize, 00:49:51.720 --> 00:49:54.270 align:middle line:84% a little bit, the projects that I'm working on 00:49:54.270 --> 00:50:00.210 align:middle line:84% and be even more intentional about what I'm working on 00:50:00.210 --> 00:50:02.250 align:middle line:90% and how I'm spending my time. 00:50:02.250 --> 00:50:07.320 align:middle line:84% I think that resetting of priorities. 00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:08.033 align:middle line:90% So, yeah. 00:50:08.033 --> 00:50:09.450 align:middle line:84% That's where I've been at with it. 00:50:09.450 --> 00:50:12.662 align:middle line:90% 00:50:12.662 --> 00:50:14.370 align:middle line:84% I don't know if there's another question. 00:50:14.370 --> 00:50:15.885 align:middle line:90% I think there's one in the chat. 00:50:15.885 --> 00:50:17.760 align:middle line:84% What-- I don't know if we're up on time, too, 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:21.040 align:middle line:84% but what gives motivation to keep going. 00:50:21.040 --> 00:50:23.370 align:middle line:90% This comes from Natalie. 00:50:23.370 --> 00:50:25.350 align:middle line:84% And what gives motivation to keep on going, 00:50:25.350 --> 00:50:28.210 align:middle line:84% because I'm taking English as my major, 00:50:28.210 --> 00:50:31.620 align:middle line:84% and I see how I write my essay, and they are low grades. 00:50:31.620 --> 00:50:36.030 align:middle line:84% I feel like that puts me back, because I love writing, 00:50:36.030 --> 00:50:40.210 align:middle line:84% but I don't know if it's good and understandable. 00:50:40.210 --> 00:50:43.250 align:middle line:90% So maybe some writing advice? 00:50:43.250 --> 00:50:47.580 align:middle line:84% Here's the thing about writing, it's practice. 00:50:47.580 --> 00:50:50.610 align:middle line:90% Like that's what it is. 00:50:50.610 --> 00:50:55.880 align:middle line:84% I'm not-- I don't know how I'm going to sound. 00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:58.760 align:middle line:90% This might sound terrible. 00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:00.440 align:middle line:84% There are some things you can teach. 00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:04.490 align:middle line:84% You can learn how to write a better essay, right. 00:51:04.490 --> 00:51:07.170 align:middle line:90% You can learn how to write. 00:51:07.170 --> 00:51:10.670 align:middle line:84% It just means that you are putting in the work. 00:51:10.670 --> 00:51:15.980 align:middle line:84% I think a lot of folks have this idea that writing 00:51:15.980 --> 00:51:18.783 align:middle line:84% is all this inspiration, like I'm outside 00:51:18.783 --> 00:51:21.200 align:middle line:84% looking at the clouds and then I come inside and I'm like, 00:51:21.200 --> 00:51:23.390 align:middle line:84% oh, I write a poem and it's great. 00:51:23.390 --> 00:51:25.430 align:middle line:90% And it's not that. 00:51:25.430 --> 00:51:30.140 align:middle line:84% You are writing and rewriting and rewriting and rewriting 00:51:30.140 --> 00:51:33.950 align:middle line:90% and learning and reading. 00:51:33.950 --> 00:51:36.050 align:middle line:90% So if you look at my-- 00:51:36.050 --> 00:51:38.150 align:middle line:90% I did some short stories. 00:51:38.150 --> 00:51:40.790 align:middle line:84% I tried writing short stories early 00:51:40.790 --> 00:51:42.913 align:middle line:84% on when I was at Cal State San Bernardino. 00:51:42.913 --> 00:51:44.330 align:middle line:84% And if you look at them, which you 00:51:44.330 --> 00:51:48.060 align:middle line:84% won't, because they're terrible, but if you look at them, 00:51:48.060 --> 00:51:49.280 align:middle line:90% they're terrible. 00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:50.780 align:middle line:84% They're just like-- I looked back 00:51:50.780 --> 00:51:56.150 align:middle line:84% at them, what was I even trying to do here? 00:51:56.150 --> 00:52:02.870 align:middle line:84% But I kept practicing and I kept rewriting and taking 00:52:02.870 --> 00:52:07.910 align:middle line:84% the critique that I got from other people and learning 00:52:07.910 --> 00:52:11.135 align:middle line:90% and kept reading. 00:52:11.135 --> 00:52:12.920 align:middle line:90% It will happen. 00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:15.770 align:middle line:84% You just have to really keep at it. 00:52:15.770 --> 00:52:18.800 align:middle line:84% If you're trying to tell your truth. 00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:22.970 align:middle line:84% Now in regards to English class, I'm putting teacher hat on. 00:52:22.970 --> 00:52:26.060 align:middle line:90% 00:52:26.060 --> 00:52:28.100 align:middle line:90% Essays are hard. 00:52:28.100 --> 00:52:35.480 align:middle line:84% Essays are hard, especially if you're a freshman or sophomore, 00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:39.050 align:middle line:84% I don't know what year you are at school. 00:52:39.050 --> 00:52:44.300 align:middle line:84% It's hard work, but you can do it. 00:52:44.300 --> 00:52:47.990 align:middle line:84% Like I really suggest talking to your professor 00:52:47.990 --> 00:52:51.010 align:middle line:90% and talking to your writing-- 00:52:51.010 --> 00:52:52.510 align:middle line:84% the Writing Center, I'm sure there's 00:52:52.510 --> 00:52:55.040 align:middle line:90% a writing center at 性视界. 00:52:55.040 --> 00:52:56.990 align:middle line:84% Like now I'm really going teacher here. 00:52:56.990 --> 00:52:59.360 align:middle line:90% Go on the Owl at Purdue. 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:04.490 align:middle line:84% Doing all the things that you're supposed to be doing. 00:53:04.490 --> 00:53:06.270 align:middle line:84% Don't be afraid to ask questions. 00:53:06.270 --> 00:53:08.780 align:middle line:84% That's the thing that I tell my students when I'm teaching. 00:53:08.780 --> 00:53:13.340 align:middle line:84% I adjunct sometimes, so do not be afraid to ask questions. 00:53:13.340 --> 00:53:14.750 align:middle line:84% Because how are you going to grow 00:53:14.750 --> 00:53:17.877 align:middle line:90% if you don't ask questions? 00:53:17.877 --> 00:53:19.460 align:middle line:84% And I'll just throw a little something 00:53:19.460 --> 00:53:22.220 align:middle line:84% out there which is like, for me, it's 00:53:22.220 --> 00:53:24.650 align:middle line:84% about focusing on the technical parts. 00:53:24.650 --> 00:53:27.810 align:middle line:84% Like I'll work on certain things or write certain things, 00:53:27.810 --> 00:53:30.020 align:middle line:84% whether it's a comic or like a little short script 00:53:30.020 --> 00:53:33.200 align:middle line:90% or a little prose thing. 00:53:33.200 --> 00:53:34.700 align:middle line:84% It's like, I'll work on those things 00:53:34.700 --> 00:53:36.530 align:middle line:84% sometimes, just as a technical exercise. 00:53:36.530 --> 00:53:39.770 align:middle line:84% Like it's literally just the exercise of doing it. 00:53:39.770 --> 00:53:41.870 align:middle line:84% And it's not necessarily going to be the greatest 00:53:41.870 --> 00:53:45.200 align:middle line:84% idea or the grandest idea or ever be published 00:53:45.200 --> 00:53:47.510 align:middle line:84% or I'll ever see it again, but it's 00:53:47.510 --> 00:53:51.138 align:middle line:84% the process of doing that over many, many years. 00:53:51.138 --> 00:53:53.180 align:middle line:84% Then, when you get to the thing that you actually 00:53:53.180 --> 00:53:56.510 align:middle line:84% want to be working on, it becomes a little easier. 00:53:56.510 --> 00:54:00.860 align:middle line:84% And I'll say that that's how I've improved my writing, doing 00:54:00.860 --> 00:54:04.970 align:middle line:84% those technical exercises, and then also reading and looking 00:54:04.970 --> 00:54:06.660 align:middle line:90% at the work of others. 00:54:06.660 --> 00:54:08.540 align:middle line:90% So, yeah. 00:54:08.540 --> 00:54:09.650 align:middle line:90% Well, thank you both. 00:54:09.650 --> 00:54:12.770 align:middle line:84% I'm super sorry to say that I think we're at time. 00:54:12.770 --> 00:54:15.290 align:middle line:84% So I want to be respectful of your time and our attendees 00:54:15.290 --> 00:54:16.500 align:middle line:90% time as well. 00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:18.290 align:middle line:84% I have a million more questions, and I 00:54:18.290 --> 00:54:20.600 align:middle line:84% think some of our attendees do, as well. 00:54:20.600 --> 00:54:25.080 align:middle line:84% But I want to thank you both so much for your generosity today. 00:54:25.080 --> 00:54:27.300 align:middle line:84% I love talking about collaboration. 00:54:27.300 --> 00:54:28.380 align:middle line:90% It's not a mystery. 00:54:28.380 --> 00:54:30.170 align:middle line:90% It's a real thing. 00:54:30.170 --> 00:54:34.250 align:middle line:84% Thanks for debunking some of the misconceptions. 00:54:34.250 --> 00:54:36.470 align:middle line:90% Really appreciate both of you. 00:54:36.470 --> 00:54:38.030 align:middle line:84% And I want to thank all of you who 00:54:38.030 --> 00:54:39.685 align:middle line:84% were able to attend today and spend 00:54:39.685 --> 00:54:41.310 align:middle line:84% a little bit of your afternoon with us. 00:54:41.310 --> 00:54:42.690 align:middle line:90% We appreciate you, as well. 00:54:42.690 --> 00:54:44.210 align:middle line:90% Thanks again, Zeke and Isabel. 00:54:44.210 --> 00:54:44.990 align:middle line:90% Take care. 00:54:44.990 --> 00:54:47.520 align:middle line:90% Everyone please take good care. 00:54:47.520 --> 00:54:48.290 align:middle line:90% Thank you so much. 00:54:48.290 --> 00:54:50.000 align:middle line:90% Thank you, have a good one. 00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:51.860 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:54:51.860 --> 00:55:01.000 align:middle line:90%